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Army rushing more armored Humvees to Iraq
NJ.COM ^

Posted on 04/25/2004 11:49:42 AM PDT by Sub-Driver

Edited on 07/06/2004 6:39:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

NAJAF, Iraq (AP)

(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armor; humvee; sbct; stryker; treadheads; uparmoredhumvee; wheeledarmor; wheelies
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To: All
See NEWSWEEK: Study Suggests 1 in 4 Would Be Alive Today Had They Been in Properly Armored Vehicles
21 posted on 04/25/2004 3:47:18 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
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To: MEG33
Agreed.
We knew the occupation was coming.
22 posted on 04/25/2004 3:47:48 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Humidston
You're welcome. Glad you like me pinging you. I have been pinging a lot lately and have overpinged some folks.
23 posted on 04/25/2004 4:03:41 PM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
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To: Sub-Driver
An armored Humvee, the M1114, first appeared in 1993 but the Army initially ordered a few, apparently not envisioning post-Cold War conflicts and peacekeeping missions such as Somalia, Kosovo, Haiti and Iraq, where guerrilla attacks could come anywhere and anytime.

More of "Clintons military".

You would think after Somalia the vast majority in the inventory would be armored.

24 posted on 04/25/2004 4:08:13 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Foreign leaders for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
You overpinging?? Naaah. Now if you want to see overpinging I can name names!! ;-)
25 posted on 04/25/2004 6:14:32 PM PDT by Humidston (You heard it here - BUSH/RICE - 2004)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
The M1114 is the MP vehicle. The people crying out for M1114's were never authorized to have them before. They have been tasked to perform MP functions and want the MP ride. They are a number of superior vehicles we could be buying.

Only because the Armored Security Vehicle designed for the MP convoy escort and roadwatch details was cancelled, leaving them with nothing but the Humvee and unarmoored trucks in whict to pull those duties.

We had the vehicle designed for the job, and let it go.


26 posted on 04/25/2004 8:09:53 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
See NEWSWEEK: Study Suggests 1 in 4 Would Be Alive Today Had They Been in Properly Armored Vehicles

See following instead.

ARMORED VEHICLES

Click on the titles below to find US government reports identified by the key word or phrase ARMORED VEHICLES.




27 posted on 04/25/2004 8:14:22 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Sub-Driver; LoudRepublicangirl; dts32041
I finally found Vallely's picture and it was his son that they said had died at Ft. Bragg. FoxNews showed a picture of the two of them. He was in Special Forces. They said it was his only son.

His son was taller than him and very nice looking. If I find any other information I will post it. My heart grieves for him.
28 posted on 04/25/2004 8:35:03 PM PDT by AUsome Joy
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To: AUsome Joy
http://www.vallely.com/general.html
Link to Vallely's Bio and picture of him.
29 posted on 04/25/2004 8:38:08 PM PDT by AUsome Joy
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To: archy
I have been suggesting the Israeli RAM vehicles in this application on this forum for some time. The existing US designs are not suitable.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/light_combat_vehicles/ram/Ram.html
30 posted on 04/26/2004 9:27:56 AM PDT by Iris7 (If "Iris7" upsets or intrigues you, see my Freeper home page for a nice explanatory essay.)
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To: Iris7; af_vet_rr; American in Israel; American Soldier; archy; armymarinemom; BCR #226; blackbag; ..
I have been suggesting the Israeli RAM vehicles in this application on this forum for some time. The existing US designs are not suitable.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/light_combat_vehicles/ram/Ram.html

I'm thinking Diesel reengined Russian BTR-152s. They're 6x6 so if one tire gets shot flat, that side still remains supported by the other two; if it's the front tire, the two rear drive wheels have enough power to at least move the vehicle out of the beaten kill zone. Not RPG proof, but there's no shortage of chainlink fencing for RPG screen rolls, and a BTR-152's plate armor will at least turn AK hits. And there's enough room in the back of a BTR 152 for an M55 quad .50 power mount or a twin 12,7mm DShK M38/46 mounting plus two 7,62 PK MGs.

But hey, if you'rather run in and maintain a RAM, that's cool. I don't see that the RAM is particularly better than the cancelled XM1117 ASV, but it's no worse either, and an amphib capability is probably unnecessary for the project at hand. Just let me know before 05 May.

The minimum called for is a guntruck/armored car front and rear; I'd prefer to see that plus two spares in column. Better to have and not need than to need and not have. Saddle up FReepers; there's convoys waiting for escorts:

FBO DAILY ISSUE OF MARCH 27, 2004 FBO #0852
SPECIAL NOTICE

99 -- Request for Information for security of convoys

Notice Date

3/25/2004

Notice Type

Special Notice

NAICS

488490  Other Support Activities for Road Transportation

Contracting Office

Other Defense Agencies, Coalition Provisional Authority, Republican Presidential Compound, Republican Presidential Compound APO, Baghdad, Iraq, AE,

09335

ZIP Code

09335

Solicitation Number

FY5866-04-RFI-0003

Response Due

4/6/2004

Archive Date

4/21/2004

Point of Contact

Laurie Pierce, Contracting Officer, Phone 703-343-9225, Fax 703-343-9227,

E-Mail Address

piercel@orha.centcom.mil

Description

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION This is a request for information from interested parties. We are interested in whether or not you have the capability to fulfill the potential requirement that follows and a rough order of magnitude relating to price. The Coalition Provisional Authority, Iraq is considering entering into contract for the security of convoys between CSC Navistar, Kuwait (long. 47.71E, lat. 30.09N); CSC Cedar, Iraq (long. 46.42E, lat. 30.61N); Scania, Iraq (long. 44.73E, lat. 32.31N) and the following depots: Latifiya, Iraq (long. 44.37E, lat. 32.55N); Mushada, Iraq (long. 44.12E, lat. 33.65N); Rasafa, Iraq (long. 44.52E, lat. 33.48N); Diwaniya, Iraq (long. 44.89E, lat. 31.98N); Hilla, Iraq (long. 44.44E, lat. 32.51N); An Najaf, Iraq (long. 44.32E, lat. 32.01N); Kut, Iraq (long. 45.81E, lat. 32.50N) and Nasiriyah, Iraq (long. 46.19E, lat. 31.04N).

The contractor will provide all labor, rations, equipment and weapons to safely escort humanitarian fuel convoys from the Kuwaiti border to various fuel depots from Nasiriyah to just north of Baghdad. There will be approximately 8 convoy packages per day departing from NAVSTAR at the Iraqi-Kuwaiti border to the following depots: Latifiya, Mushada, Rasafa, Diwaniya, Hilla, An Najaf, Kut and Nasiriyah.

Typical convoy round trip time is currently 8 days, with overnight stays possible at Cedar and Scania as well as various fuel depots. Coalition Forces provide security at Cedar and Scania. Ministry of Oil provides security within the perimeter of the depots. The contractor is responsible for all security between these points. The contractor shall provide security for each convoy, usually 20 to 30 trucks per convoy, with at least two vehicles; one in front and one in the back.

Contractor vehicles will be marked to allow clear identification by Coalition Forces. Each vehicle will be manned by three personnel. Each vehicle shall have a Government approved automatic, mid to long range weapon mounted such that it can provide 360-degree coverage around the vehicle. Additionally, each security person in the vehicle shall have a personal automatic rifle that is approved by the Government. Each vehicle shall have the ability to communicate via radio and Thuraya or equivalent communication with each other and each of the staging points (Scania, Navistar, and Cedar). The contractor is responsible for having a representative at these sites that will act as a liaison with the military and maintains communication with the convoy escorts at all times. Coalition Forces are responsible for providing a quick reaction force if the contractor notifies the military that the convoy has come under attack.

The contractor is required to display or wear any uniforms designated by the government and display colors, tape, radar reflectors, or markings on their vehicles as dictated by the government. The contractor shall coordinate all movements with the military liaison designated by the government. The contractor is responsible for all maintenance, fuel, ammunition, etc for their vehicles. Convoys will operate exclusively during daylight hours. The military reserves the right to determine when a convoy can leave and enter compounds. The contractor is not required to escort during periods of darkness or severely reduced visibility.

The Government will be held harmless, and is not liable for any damage caused by acts of war, aggression or natural disasters effecting contractor vehicles or personnel. The contractor is responsible for their own supply and re-supply of ammunition. Quantities and types of ammunition on hand must be approved by the Government. The Government reserves the right to disallow convoy movements if the preparation of the contractor is deemed inadequate.

The contractor is responsible for providing first responder medical care to its own personnel. The contractor shall be given military medical care in the event of an emergency and is authorized to utilize the emergency medical frequency. The contractor shall be paid based on the number of convoys escorted to final destination.

These prices shall be fixed price and not subject to redetermination. This is not a request for quote. Information provided is completely voluntary. This RFI does not in any way constitute intent by the Government to form a contract.

Contact Information Following is the point of contact for this RFI: Ms. Laurie Pierce (703) 343-9225 piercel@orha.centcom.mil Please submit responses via e-mail in Microsoft Office format by 1700 hours (local Baghdad time) on 5 April 2004.


31 posted on 04/26/2004 10:39:12 AM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: archy
Heck, for battery defense I was thinking of 'borrowing' the Humvee bodied 'Avenger" system.
Twin 30mm's would be a great boon for land defense.
Of course, the Stinger pods would have to go as Stingers don't make good anti-personnel rockets.
However, 2.75 inch Hydra 70 FFAR's do, and replacing the Stinger pods with Hydra 70's would be nice.
Port out the Avenger weaponstation to a different vehicle with the above mentioned modifications, and it may be the start of a different kind of defensive weapon.
A few of such vehicles in a convoy may be interesting to see.
BTR-152's?
Interesting.
Would the Avenger weapon station fit in the back as well?
32 posted on 04/26/2004 11:01:20 AM PDT by Darksheare (Fortune for the day: Beware, the dandelions have become carnivorou...........)
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To: Sub-Driver
the M1114 probably ranks No. 1 on the wish list of many soldiers in Iraq, since it can stop AK-47 bullets, anti-personnel RPGs and most roadside bombs and mines

Sheesh, let's get the factories rolling then.

33 posted on 04/26/2004 11:05:51 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: archy
Gee whiz, archy. That was a lot of HTMLing. Thanks.
34 posted on 04/26/2004 11:43:59 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
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To: 1Old Pro
the M1114 probably ranks No. 1 on the wish list of many soldiers in Iraq, since it can stop AK-47 bullets, anti-personnel RPGs and most roadside bombs and mines

Sheesh, let's get the factories rolling then.

Gently, gently. Yep, I expect the factories should turn some out: they'd be a good replacement for unarmored 4-wheeled Humvees, and they're air transportable so can be delivered in-theater by C130 anywhere a localized uprising or assault might erupt; just the ticket for about half the equipment for a light reaction force.

But a 4-wheeled vehicle of any sort is at a disadvantage in sand; that's been known since the German Kfz221 and 222 of the AfrikaKorps, replaced by larger and more powerful vehicles that could unstick themselves and each other...and with larger crews to shovel sand and pull sand mats. Shoot off or burn off one wheel on a 4-wheeler, and the vehicle tips toward that missing wheel, often lifting the one on the other side off the ground, cutting the ability of the vehicle to get itself out of a bad place by half. On road, the 4 wheelers will probably do okay, off road might be something else again.

The 8-wheeled Stryker is overlarge and expensive; the 4-wheelers in some ways are too light and small. But during WWII we used the more-or-less successful M8 and M20 Greyhound, and the Spanish 6-wheeler is similar, though Diesel engined.


35 posted on 04/26/2004 11:46:38 AM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: PsyOps
Sounds like a job for the HEMAT gun truck
36 posted on 04/26/2004 11:49:07 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
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To: archy
Who will go?

Send me.

37 posted on 04/26/2004 11:50:43 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)
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To: Darksheare; Ragtime Cowgirl; spatzie
Heck, for battery defense I was thinking of 'borrowing' the Humvee bodied 'Avenger" system. Twin 30mm's would be a great boon for land defense. Of course, the Stinger pods would have to go as Stingers don't make good anti-personnel rockets.

However, 2.75 inch Hydra 70 FFAR's do, and replacing the Stinger pods with Hydra 70's would be nice. Port out the Avenger weaponstation to a different vehicle with the above mentioned modifications, and it may be the start of a different kind of defensive weapon. A few of such vehicles in a convoy may be interesting to see.

BTR-152's?

Interesting.

Would the Avenger weapon station fit in the back as well?

I wouldn't be surprised; if not, it could probably be fitted to the Czech OT-62 *Scot*...or the Isrtaeli Machbet could be fitted, very similar to the Avenger, and now replacing the weapons station on all the Israeli M163 Vulcan AA M113A1 tracks. Just replace the Stinger missile with a helicopter pod full of Hydra missiles with a tasteful mix of flechette and HE rockets, and you'd have the functional equivalent of the old *Slammer VI* mini-MLRS system that the 82nd Airborne experimented with in the late 1970s.

Another possibility: the old M55 quad .50 mount with the two bottom .50s replaced with 4 M240 7,62mm MGs instead...and the top two replaced with a pair of 40mm Mk19 grenade launchers.

Yes, I've got a line on a dozen surplussed M55 quad .50 mounts. Hehhehheh....


38 posted on 04/26/2004 12:02:57 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4
Who will go?

Send me

You don't even want to hear the pay scales yet? I figure a platoon per convoy, 4 gun trucks, an armored ambulance and ... one car with radios and a little something extra. 4-6 guys per truck, a driver and medic in the band-aid car, so something like 20-30 people per comvoy, NOT the *one truck in front, one in back* called for in the proposal. BTW, the feller I have pencilled in as company commander is a former redleg LTC.

That's enough to split off and cover a second convoy or a breakdown if necessary, or for half to babysit the convoy while two or three fight and troublemakers.

Of course, a unit patch/insignia would be necessary....


39 posted on 04/26/2004 12:12:42 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: archy
"Just replace the Stinger missile with a helicopter pod full of Hydra missiles with a tasteful mix of flechette and HE rockets, and you'd have the functional equivalent of the old *Slammer VI* mini-MLRS system that the 82nd Airborne experimented with in the late 1970s."
"Yes, I've got a line on a dozen surplussed M55 quad .50 mounts. Hehhehheh...."

It's an idea.
*chuckle*
Heck, Zuni rockets would do in a pinch as well in the helipods.
The Mk19's are an idea as well, a dual mount on them and quad mg's o nhand as well, sweet.
Have a mix of the rocket pods, and other similar stuff, and that makes defense interesting.
Wonder who'd be stupid enough to mess with a convoy thus armed?
40 posted on 04/26/2004 12:18:25 PM PDT by Darksheare (Fortune for the day: Beware, the dandelions have become carnivorou...........)
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