Chip maker shifts design to India (another one bites the dust)

BBC ^ | 22 April, 2004

[traumer]

I second that.
WHAT new jobs ? The gurus are promising these 'new highly-paid jobs' for some time now...

New technologies may come - but companies won't be willing to pay decent salaries. They got 'hooked' off-shore...

[oceanview]

I believe it. the US higher education system, the colleges and universities, aren't going to give up their $150+K per year administrators and faculty - so more and more taxpayer money goes for grants or loans that are never repaid.

yes, these threads have tailed off recently, since harpseal passed away I think.

[oceanview]

that is a myth. americans aren't going into engineering now because they know there are no jobs to get when they graduate - or the wages are depressed because they are competing against foreign competition. there are no real estate brokers in the US competing against Indian and Chinese real estate agents.

sure, alot of US high school kids are bad at math and science. so what, only a fraction of them would need to take up engineering, not everybody goes into engineering, just as not everyone wants to be a dentist.

the students are going to take up studies where they believe they can get jobs. engineering used to be an inherited profession - the engineers of tommorrow are the childeren of today's engineers. but today's engineers know the score, and they won't send their kids to college for it, so engineering is dead in the US, this current generational gap will break it.

Get ready for a tidal wave of lawyers 3-6 years from now. you think the legal system is bad now, wait until the system has to generate enough revenue to support twice as many lawyers. things that we laugh about now, like suits against the fast food companies, will be a reality in a few years. same thing with public school teachers. think costs are too high now, and class sizes are too small? in a few years, you'll see 15 kids per class to employ all these new teachers being trained.

by doing nothing about offshoring, the republicans are killing off their own demographics by forcing more people into law and teaching, those are Dem voting blocs.

[vigilo]

Indians are very difficult to work with. They say, "Yes, yes, I understand, I understand." Then go off and do what they darn well please, regardless of what you've told them to do, all the while smiling and telling you "Of course, of course, we'll do it your way." They AREN'T westerners and they DON'T think like we do.

I scoff in the chip makers' general direction.

[DB]

I'm an engineer. I'm overloaded with work. I make good money.

I don't see engineering as dead in the US.

Talented engineers can still make big bucks here.

[Monty22]

"by doing nothing about offshoring, the republicans are killing off their own demographics by forcing more people into law and teaching, those are Dem voting blocs."

You are 100% correct. They are also pushing people into low-end Union style jobs. However, it's not Republicans per se that are doing it, it's the total lack of caring from both parties.

[DB]

The best engineers become engineers because they love it, not because it was the highest paying career choice. Those who choose professions based on pay and not what they love are the least likely to be at the forefront of their field.

If they love it, they will sacrifice and stick to it to achieve their goals and eventually become successful if not very successful.

[oceanview]

people still need to make a living. engineering was always a good paying field - you aren't a rock star or an athlete, but you aren't poor either.

[DB]

Basic rule of capitalism: capital goes where capital is most productive.

The solution is not putting up barriers to stop companies from "out sourcing" but to instead provide an environment that makes doing the work here more attractive.

That comes down to excessive regulation and taxation. Attacking the problem some other way is destine to fail in the long run.

[oceanview]

I only say that because the current demographic - white collar profession private sector middle class workers, is solidly republican. I expect the Dems to stand up for the schoolteachers and the public education beauracrcy, that's "their team". what we are doing for our team?

[Monty22]

A combination of making it easier here, and matching their regulations is the best.

[oceanview]

I know engineers working at Lowe's now. Not that there is anything wrong with working at Lowe's mind you, but they sure as hell didn't need a masters degree for that.

[DB]

I don't know of any established electrical engineers that are paid less than $100k a year here in California.

That isn't fantastic pay, but it isn't poor either.

[DB]

In California the majority of engineers I've met are liberal not conservative. Geek la-la land.

Frankly I've never understood this.

[traumer]

"Part of the problem is with US education. We simply aren't graduating enough engineers "

I know many very capable US engineers that already GRADUATED and cannot find jobs in their field (EE)...

[oceanview]

sure, the ones who are working. that's why these stats on "average US engineering wage" are meaningless. It applies only to the ones who are working, the ones who have been laid off and work outside the field now, don't count.

and when you say "established", I guess you are saying the ones with 15+ years. ask them if they are hiring any young people at their companies (if they are hiring at all)? are they hiring any young people right out of college? the point is - don't just look at where the field is now, look at where the trends are taking it in the next 10 years. demand for what would be new hires from US engineering schools is now being met through the use of foreign labor. for the guy with 15+ years experience making $100K, that may not mean anything right now, but that same guy should understand that 15 years from now, there won't be anyone assuming his jobs role in the US making that same $100K wage he is pulling down now.

[oceanview]

alot of the San Francisco culture has infested Silicon Valley.

[RFEngineer]

Agreed.....if nothing else, you and I will (continue) make a lot of money before people figure out engineering really isn't dead........

[DB]

After working for a larger telecommunications equipment company (CMI) for five years I realized I'd never become wealthy working for others.

Sometimes you have to step off the plantation and do your own thing.

I did.

I started my own business. Originally it was engineering for hire as in developing hardware ready to be manufactured by the client. It was hard work with lots of stress...

My business partner and I then started designing and manufacturing our own products. In the satellite communications business our products are now well known world wide.

[traumer]

There is still room to raise taxes.... look at Canada !