Posted on 04/23/2004 4:54:02 PM PDT by jmstein7
Let me ask you about a trickier question. And thats John Kerry. The Republicans on Capitol Hill are really tearing into this guy for how he behaved after he came back from service. Do you think guys fact that he got three Purple Hearts should immunize him against that attack or is he fair game?
ORIN: I think he is fair game. You have the sort of bizarre conjunction of somebody who was a decorated in Vietnam veteran and he came back and said he committed atrocities and said that American soldiers violated the rules of law and their bosses were war criminals. And just as he gets creditwere responsible for what we do. Were accountable. He gets credit for his service. And some people might not find what he said afterwards that pleasing. Of course, he backed away it from last week, said that he thought the language that he used then was a bit inappropriate.
MATTHEWS: Well, you and I are from that generation, from that Vietnam-era generation. Do you think he gets any immunization among men? (CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: The fact that he got shot at three times and hit three times and certainly stuck hisheres a rich kid, not a celebrity, but a rich kid who chose to go into combat as a judge officer.
SHAPIRO: Which is still so aberrant against the backdrop of Vietnam. And I really think that wallowing in 1971 like the House Republicans were doing yesterday isit is so irrelevant. I mean, we all in the 1970s and 1960s said things in an intemperate side of Vietnam on either side of the debate that in adult hindsight we regret. So the fact is that Kerry maybe went a bit too far in the early 70s isnt the issue. Whats really the issue is that thesethe Republicans are trying to make a political issue out of an event that happened before the majority of American voters got out of grade school.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, yesterday, a number of Republican Congress people took to the House floor to criticize John Kerrys anti-war activities after he got back from Vietnam. Heres what Congressman Sam HoustonSam HoustonSam Johnson, who spent seven years in a North Vietnamese prisoner of war camp, had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SAM JOHNSON (D), TEXAS: On this day in 1971, John Kerry showed his true colors. And theyre not red, white and blue. Before the Senate, before America, and before the world, he blasted our nation, chastised our troops, and hurt our morale. What he did was nothing short of aiding and abetting the enemy. A person like John Kerry does not belong in the White House. Is it any wonder my comrades from Vietnam and I have a nickname for him similar to Hanoi Jane? (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: Well, you got to wonder how much of this has been choreographed, Walter. What do you think? SHAPIRO: Oh (CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Is the spontaneous outburst of a former POW or is this a guy who got the call from Karl Rove or somebody at the White House saying, it is your turn to speak up for the president and nail the opponent?
SHAPIRO: Well, I mean, clearly, anything that happens after hours on the House floor is choreographed. Its been choreographed since the days you were working for Tip, Chris.
MATTHEWS: I know. Well, I know how it was done, because both sides did it. But go ahead. (LAUGHTER)
SHAPIRO: But the point here is, bringing up Jane Fonda -- I think the Annenberg Center did a poll and asked Americans how many people rememberwhat people remember Jane Fonda for. I think it was something like 7 percent still remember that Jane Fonda was an overly militant anti-war activist who went to Hanoi.
MATTHEWS: Well, what do you remember, Cat Ballou?
SHAPIRO: I remember Cat Ballou. Others remember exercise videos. And the very old remember that she had a father named Hank. MATTHEWS: I remember all her husbands. (LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: She had so many of them, Tom Hayden when she was left-wing. She had a movie stara European movie director, Roger Vadim. And then she married Ted Turner in her sort of corporate era there. (LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: But what do you think, Deborah? Do you think this is going to be a nail in this guys coffin to be compared once again to Hanoi Jane?
ORIN: No. I think what it does is, for people who dont like Kerry, it is another reason not to like him. But the problem for Kerry, it is sort of the Republicans turn at doing what Democrats did by the questioning Bushs air National Guard service. Voters dont really care all that much about what happened 30 years ago. (CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: These are jabs, rather than punches.
ORIN: Well, it is a fog. Its what you call in political jargon noise. Nobody can hear what youre saying because youre busy answering questions about, did you really deserve this Purple Heart or not? And they seem to have committed a real unforced error, according to The Boston Globe, which really tracks this stuff. Theyve posted on the Kerry Web site some heroics of his swift boat, which he wasnt the commander. And the guy who was the commander at the time has objected rather loudly, wait a minute. (CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: So the pro-Kerry people are bragging too much.
ORIN: Well, they posted up a long list of, heres what his boat did. And at one point, some of those heroics, a guy named Edward Peck (ph) has called in and said, hey.
MATTHEWS: Were not voting for the boat. Anyway... (CROSSTALK)
SHAPIRO: You mean (CROSSTALK)
SHAPIRO: ... boat didnt sink the Bismarck?
They noted he won awards for bravery and heroism in Vietnam as well as three Purple Hearts
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