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To: sinclair
Somebody in Houston is going to have one hell of a smug look on his/her face when gasoline hits $3 a gallon and they are riding that train downtown to work. Public transportation in heavily populated urban centers is the intelligent alternative. I don't care what city it is.

There are several problems with that.

First, in order to ride a train downtown to work a train must go from the suburbs to downtown. Metrorail doesn't and Metrorail's planned expansions will not. Houston's suburbs are 20-30 miles outside of the city and Metrorail, both now and 20 years from now when Phase II is complete, will not service any area more than about 6 miles outside of downtown.

Second, Houston's urban center is not heavily populated, never has been, and likely never will be. It's a decentralized city with low population density. Nobody lives downtown save a few highrises and apartment complexes. It would also be an inefficient use of land to build more apartment complexes or highrises there as doing so would consume more lucrative real estate from commercial and hotel uses. Therefore your assumption about rail being an "intelligent alternative" does not hold.

Third, it does indeed matter what city it is. Houston is not New York and New York is not Houston. Take an example: Building a subway system in Houston, for example, would not work even if New York has it. Why? Because Houston's land is clay-based and prone to flooding. Take another example: building an oil refinery near downtown NYC won't work like it does for Houston because there isn't nearby oil pumping into NYC to be refined. You'd have to ship it over long distances from somewhere else.

61 posted on 04/24/2004 11:05:42 AM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
First, in order to ride a train downtown to work a train must go from the suburbs to downtown. Metrorail doesn't and Metrorail's planned expansions will not. Houston's suburbs are 20-30 miles outside of the city and Metrorail, both now and 20 years from now when Phase II is complete, will not service any area more than about 6 miles outside of downtown. Your first paragraph is correct as now planned. But I wasn't referring to just a rail system as a one trick pony but mass transit as a whole.

Second, Houston's urban center is not heavily populated, never has been, and likely never will be. It's a decentralized city with low population density. Nobody lives downtown save a few highrises and apartment complexes. All of Houston inside the "Loop" could benefit from a real mass transit system specifically because it is decentralized. It would also be an inefficient use of land to build more apartment complexes or highrises there as doing so would consume more lucrative real estate from commercial and hotel uses. If you built living quarters in the urban area you wouldn't need to transport the workers to the jobs, so therefore no need for extensive mass transit beyond the urban area. Therefore your assumption about rail being an "intelligent alternative" does not hold.

Third, it does indeed matter what city it is. Houston is not New York and New York is not Houston. Take an example: Building a subway system in Houston, for example, would not work even if New York has it. Why? Because Houston's land is clay-based and prone to flooding. No subway needed only "surface transportation". Take another example: building an oil refinery near downtown NYC won't work like it does for Houston because there isn't nearby oil pumping into NYC to be refined. You'd have to ship it over long distances from somewhere else. From personal experience; I, as a licensed "Tankerman" aboard an ocean going barge pumped crude oil to a refinery while looking at the Statue of Liberty and the World Trade Center under construction. That refinery was closer to Manhattan Island than Shell Oil's Deer Park, Tx. Refinery is to downtown Houston.

68 posted on 04/24/2004 2:17:19 PM PDT by sinclair (If you don't stop and think, then it doesn't matter whether you are a genius or a moron)
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To: GOPcapitalist; sinclair
Take another example: building an oil refinery near downtown NYC won't work like it does for Houston because there isn't nearby oil pumping into NYC to be refined. You'd have to ship it over long distances from somewhere else.

Ah, that would explain the 250,000 barrel per day Bayway refinery in NJ, directly across the river from downtown New York City!

Thanks you for your enlightenment of us, o wise one!

Ps. shipping over long distances - like from Venezuela, Angola, or Kuwait? You do realize that we import something like 2/3 of our oil? Ocean shipping, however, is cheap.

74 posted on 04/24/2004 5:41:42 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: GOPcapitalist; cyborg
61 - "Houston is not New York and New York is not Houston"

Boy, you got that right. Houston goes OUT, NYC goes UP. Mass transit in Houston is never going to be really practical. And almost NOTHING is within walking distance in Houston, once you get off of any mass transit.

Subways are impossible in Houston, they would have to be Submarines. Though aerial monorails, could work, there is no place near anything. Routine trips are 50 miles.
109 posted on 04/25/2004 12:28:10 PM PDT by XBob
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