U.S. Marines face tough times in postwar Iraq (Good Read)

http://www.menafn.com/ ^ | Sunday, April 18, 2004 | Ron Harris

[HarryCaul]

I do think the administration is failing to communicate its case for the war effectively. They got seriously sidetracked by the whole WMD thing, which was never the main reason for the invasion in the first place.

The mission is to remake Iraq into a democractic showcase for the region. It's silly to say it's impossible, we've done it before (see Japan), and we can do it again. But it's not an easy job, and the whole plan needs to be laid out clearly and directly. There seems to be some odd fear about doing so, and I can't quite figure out why.

We're out to remake the region, so maybe it's that we're afriad of spooking our so-called allies in the area, but their day must come. They must move to democracy, there is no choice whatsoever.

[TomasUSMC]

"What you are really facing is what the Marines call `the 3-block war,'" said their commanding officer, Lt. Col. Matthew Lopez, a 40-year-old Chicago native. "On one block you can be doing humanitarian aid. In another block you could be providing security. In the third block you could be engaged in full combat.

Pure exact replication of a war lost long ago. Make it a one block war, and then level the block.

The civilians need to fear US more than the enemy. Money and love ain't ever going to beat fear of death, because you can't spend money and you can't make love when your DEAD.

"The unit is finding between three to eight roadside bombs daily. In one day, Lopez, their commanding officer, found three in a local town and was able to clear the area before insurgents detonated the explosives."

The elusiveness of the enemy and the nature of the combat have pushed many Marines to compare and contrast this war to one of the darkest periods in recent U.S. foreign policy and military history _ the VIETNAM War.

"It's the same thing they got hit with in Vietnam," said Staff Sgt. Carl Scott, who served in Desert Storm in 1991, and both phases of the current war. "You can't see who is shooting at you a lot of the time. You can't see who is blowing you up. They throw a rock and hide their hands."

Capt. Trent Gibson, the Kilo Company commander, read a book on the Vietnam War during his flight from America to Kuwait. He flashed to thoughts of that conflict on his first day in the region.
"I was driving down Market Street in Husaybah and I had the windows of the Humvee rolled down. I'm waving at people, and only maybe 30 percent would give me, like, a tentative wave, the kind where if somebody saw them, they could pretend they were doing something else," said Gibson, 35, whose uncles served in Vietnam.
"I couldn't help but think of the stories I read about Vietnam and it seemed to me that it was like then, the Viet Cong owned the village, and nobody wanted to be associated with the Americans."

_How many times can YOU find the "V" word in the above statements by the men in combat?__

"Now, collateral damage is unacceptable if we're trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people," "It's like General Mattis says. We're not going to do one thing in a day to win this war, but we can do one thing in a day to lose it." - With our officers spouting this kind of crap, we can expect the same result we achieved 30 years ago. On the other hand, I am sure the enemy is thanking Allah for our kinder gentler compassionate combat crusade.

[TomasUSMC]

Some say The mission is to remake Iraq into a democratic showcase for the region. It's silly to say it's impossible, we've done it before (see Japan), and we can do it again.

The big difference is that when we started rebuilding Iraq we didn't have guerrillas sneaking into Japan from outside Japan killing Americans. We also had instilled a fear in the Japanese of American Firepower that was greater than their fear of anything else - something else we haven't done in Iraq yet.

[McGavin999]

I don't know if I believe this, and if this is what they are talking about, they need to have their commanding officer pulled out of there and replaced with someone who is better at his job.

[Travis McGee]

Ping.

[Travis McGee]

Plus, the Japanese had an emperor whom they would obey as one.

The emperor said "war's over, cooperate with the occupation," and that was that. The Japanese were raised to obey authority if nothing else.

There is no comparable authority in Iraq, and no tradition of obeying authority.

[teldon30]

My father was sent to Japan right after the war ended....no crime, no thuggery and the people were complicit with whatever the government said.....i believe a lot of Marines are questioning what is going on...all soldiers or sailors bitch and complain...and by god they got a right too...unlike me sitting in safety sipping tea.

[Rokke]

"The civilians need to fear US more than the enemy."

What do you suppose that would accomplish. These people are whipped dogs. If we just whip them harder than the bad guys, do you really think we'd be accomplishing anything useful?

[wardaddy]

BTTT....my thoughts exactly.

In often wonder does W really believe what he is saying when he harps on this or is it for public consumption.

I fear he really believes it ....rainmaking like with the illegal immigration issue as well.

oh well, no one is perfect.

[Judith Anne]

I'm not surprised to see this version of the "quagmire" argument from a St. Louis Post Dispatch writer.

What a bunch of BS. I guess he thinks that if he writes that the Marines in Iraq are worrying that they're in a quagmire comparable to Viet Nam, it'll bolster Purple Heart Kerry's argument to hand the whole thing over to the UN to fix.

Anyone who thinks that a MSM writer would put out anything resembling a fair view of the US war in Iraq is nuts. Just because an article is long, doesn't mean it makes any sense. For the short version, pick any CNN Iraq editorial.

[optik_b]

"The big difference is that when we started rebuilding Iraq we didn't have guerrillas sneaking into Japan from outside Japan killing Americans."

There were a lot of differences. Comparing Japanese to Islamic Sunnis and Shias is like comparing Zimbabwe with Germany.

[schmelvin]

With our officers spouting this kind of crap, we can expect the same result we achieved 30 years ago.

No kidding. I'm just a housewife and even I understand that this Mr. Nice Guy cr@p doesn't do anything but project an image of weakness, which then encourages the enemy to attack and the locals to defer to them rather than us.

It seemed obvious enough from the article that some Iraqis were taking advantage of Officer Moneybag's eagerness to pass out the cash, making us not only appear weak, but stupid too. I don't know who came up with the idiotic "winning hearts and minds" idea, but at best it results in an increased disrespect for us and at worst an increased body count for both sides. Leave politics to the politicians, but let soldiers be soldiers.

As for some of the other comments our soldiers allegedly made, wondering why we were there, continually comparing Iraq to Vietnam, blah, blah, puke... I have a hard time believing they really said these things. Either, they're under the command of an officer unfit for duty, who's filled their heads with nonsense, or this reporter (ahem) "misquoted" them.

After reading so many other stories, emails from soldiers on the front lines, etc. on FR about how our guys are kicking butt, taking names, and most definitely not playing paddy-cake with the enemy, I have a very hard time believing this article is even true.

[wingman1]

"I don't know who came up with the idiotic "winning hearts and minds" idea..."

Winning hearts and minds is crucial in a guerrilla war. If you think that the war is tough now, try to imagine what it would be like if a majority of the Iraqi population were willing accomplices of the guerrillas. From what I understand, our main opposition comes from people in the Sunni Triangle who no longer dominate the country, and an influx of foreign fighters. The former will be pacified and the latter will be destroyed.

As it stands right now, the terrorists do not enjoy popular support. If one looks at the southern region of Iraq, it is pretty much pacified. The Kurdish area in the north is pro-American. The Sunnis will eventually take note of the prosperity of the other two regions, and see their's as still war-torn. There are already free elections in some areas.

Communism took root in countries like Vietnam where the Viet Cong addressed issues of land reform. Of course, they had to intention of reforming anything, but the idea appealed to landless peasants. Once political power is turned over to the Iraqis, various reforms can continue to take place and will eventually serve to create an esprit de corps among those who wish to defend their accomplishments. Much has already been accomplished and put in place by US military Civil Affairs teams.

[Rokke]

"No kidding. I'm just a housewife and even I understand that this Mr. Nice Guy cr@p doesn't do anything but project an image of weakness,"

No offense, because I deeply respect the job of being a housewife, but do you really think you have the proper perspective and expertise in the area to make an accurate assessment of what's needed? I'm not a doctor, but I can tell you that some types of medical practices make absolutely NO sense to me. Yet, they seem to work in the end. I think we should trust the guys we have in the field. We are taking casualties, but whose to say a different approach might not be even worse.

[Judith Anne]

What "different" approach do you recommend to the men in the field that might work better? Just curious...

[Ben Chad]

After reading so many other stories, emails from soldiers on the front lines, etc. on FR about how our guys are kicking butt, taking names, and most definitely not playing paddy-cake with the enemy, I have a very hard time believing this article is even true.

What part of the article did you find hard to believe? We kicked a lot of butt in VN. So what? Our boys, my son included, face an enemy in Iraq that melts into the crowd, smiles to soldiers one day and plants bombs the next. Is that hard to believe? Have you read Phase Line Green - The Battle For Hue, 1968? It is the memoir of a Marine Leutenant (Nicholas Warr) who survived the battle for Hue inside the Citadel. He describes the nightmare of leading a platoon on a mission that all his men knew to be insane, suicidal, because of ridiculous rules of engagement that forbid the use of heavy weapons against a well-entrenched enemy for fear that it might damage some shrines. It got a lot of young Marines needlessly killed. Warr describes the fear that the Viet Cong instilled in the neutral populace: Colaborate with Americans, you are dead!

Perhaps the Iraqi insurgents have been studying history. Just because Fat Bastard Ted Kennedy asserted this is Viet Nam deja vu doesn't mean it isn't so in many important respects. We better understand the parallels. God bless the individual grunts who are still alive who say we are kicking butt. I find it easy to believe, on the other hand, that there are many who are questioning the sanity of the mission, as presently framed, like the soon to be killed Marines groused to Lt. Warr before their suicide mission in Hue, 1968.

God bless the Marines. Now as Dr. Laura says, do the right thing.

[Ben Chad]

JF - Ping - Comments?

[Rokke]

"What "different" approach do you recommend to the men in the field that might work better? Just curious... "

Your assumption is that "something" would work "better". I'm not convinced. The area these men are patrolling was a land of outlaws and theives long before we invaded Iraq. Smuggling is the major economic activity along the Syrian border. It is run by mafia's that make anything in this country look like sewing circles. The Iraqi people in this region are broken. It will take generations to fix them. Our best bet is to let our men on the ground make the decisions. Believe it or not, they are being allowed to do just that.

[JeeperFreeper]

Thanks for post. It's been this way since WWII. Go to war, be winning, then let the "perfumed princes" of the Pentagon and State Dept. diplomats take charge and lose it. For instance, after WWII, the Americans had to fight the "Werewolves", Nazi insurgents post war. After finding them , they executed them with a firing squad after a summary trial. In Iraq, what do we do with, say, a Syrian terrorist captured in Baghdad. By the rules established by the "Perfumed Princes" and State Dept. diplomats, we arrest him like he's a cat burglar. Using tactics that don't even clean up drug gangs in public housing in the U.S. are hardly likely to scare muslim fanatics. If the U.S. is to go to war, then use total war. The article proves it. The first war let all the dogs of war out. The bad guys disappeared or died. Now these half measures based on feelings will likely fail. If the citizens thought the Americans would go find AND KILL those threatening them, they would be much more inclined to cooperate with Americans. But, the politicians thousands of miles from the bullets and the diplomats with armored cars and bodyguards
are much more concerned with the day's polling data or next promotion than American and Iraqi lives. It's a war, treat it as such.