AN EMAIL FROM THE FRONT

andrew sullivan ^ | Wednesday, April 14, 2004 | in iraq

[jim35]

"...If Bill Clinton were the president today, and events in Iraq unfolded over the last year exactly as they have..."

No, because the press would either ignore any bad stories from Iraq, or they would always accentuate the positive stories (you know, the ones we never hear) about reconstruction and the prospect of a free Iraq leading to a stablizing effect in the ME.

[DTA]

DogAnchor, I agree with your view. Preventing cooperation of Iraq and Iran in case of Saudi meltdown was an imperative and big picture indeed does make perfect sense.

I am just curious about "This is the boldest strategy in the last 75 years"

To what bold strategy from 1929 you were referring to?

The rise of Hitler?

[CSM]

"Bin Laden doesn't fall into the nice guy category either, and until 9/11/01, your logic for not going after bad guys with ill intent would have made more sense."

The irony in all of this is that the same poeple carping at GWB for not taking action against UBL are the same non-thinkers complaining about taking pre-emptive action in Iraq. The lack of honesty is astounding!

[Alberta's Child]

I believe it is imperative that the U.S. is in the Mid East for two basic reasons: 1) The defense of democracy via Israel; 2) The defense of oil reserves for all the westernized world.

You're making Expat's point. Neither of these two reasons was used by the Bush administration in its justification for the war back in late 2002.

There's a simple reason for that . . . If the Bush administration had publicly stated what you just posted here, it would have obtained neither public support nor (almost by definition) Congressional approval for the war.

I am truly amazed at how many conservatives have completely bought into the "weapons of mass destruction" nonsense that this administration used for no other reason than to secure public support for the war among the dopey soccer moms who were such strong supporters of Bill Clinton throughout the 1990s.

[onedoug]

Sounds like the Army, alright.

[jim35]

"...No I don't think Iraq supported terrorism against the US anywhere near the run-up to war. Do you have a shred of evidence that it did?.."

Where did the Achille Lauro hijacker go, to hide from prosecution, when the Italians set him free? Go ahead, guess. Ok, I'll tell you. Iraq. Yep, no connection to terrorism here. What was the greatest danger warned of by our chief inspector, who was unable to find WMD? That the programs to create WMD, linked with the probability of selling such technology to terrorists, would almost certainly have led to future attacks on the U.S. Keep supporting our enemy's propoganda, overseas, to prove how pro-American you are.

[Alberta's Child]

No, because the press would either ignore any bad stories from Iraq, or they would always accentuate the positive stories (you know, the ones we never hear) about reconstruction and the prospect of a free Iraq leading to a stablizing effect in the ME.

Bullsh!t. That's exactly what the press did with regard to Bosnia/Kosovo, and yet nobody here was dumb enough to believe that Bill Clinton and his cronies were anything other than war criminals.

[Hewar]

It is good that the American and the world is seeing the difference between Kurds and the rest of Iraq who do not believe or want democracy. Kurds sacrified with thier blood and ready to give all thier lifes for this freedom and democracy and look what the rest are doing. It is unfair to leave Kurds at the mercy of these butchers as we have done in the past, Iraq should be splitted, Kurds should have a separate state and the rest of Arab should decide to be one or two states.Any way that is what Kurds are asking for but USA policy is not accepting the fact that Kurds are historicly and culturaly totally different from Arabs, though a large number are muslims but no one believe in Islamic state and they never used terrorism in thier long struggle as Arabs and Palestenians are doing though America has betraied them so many times for the sake of thier old friends( Arab oil rich countries and Turkey). I think America should respect the will of Kurds or at least agree on what they ask for a REFFERENDUM ASKING KURDISH PEOPLE WHAT THEY WHANT, they have collected 2 million signitaures asking for a referrendum no body listened to them. That is thier right.Any nation has the right of self determination. I hope the American public can help and support this view.

[Dog Anchor]

Sorry about that...I can't add today.

The boldest strategy ever...

[jim35]

"...The entire series of claims about WMD and Al-Qaeda..."
"...All lies. Everyone knows it..."

Who's this "everyone" again? Why did Saddam have an empty fusilage of a passenger jet in a secluded area? A playground for children? "Everyone" knows that Saddam was linked to terrorism, so stop spewing garbage about anti-Americanism. I'm just waiting for the "imperialist pig" phrase to come from you.

[dennisw]

Nobody rides for free, Jack. If we want MidEast oil we must be engaged there. Iraq was getting worse and worse with no prospect of change since Saddam had two psycho sons. We bug out and USSR and China rush into the power vacuum. You want them calling the shots there?

I disagree. Going into Iraq was always a roll of the dice. I still think it was worth trying. We can lower expectations there and keep a presence that will help keep the Middle East honest.

[Dog Anchor]

I am truly amazed at how many conservatives have completely bought into the "weapons of mass destruction" nonsense that this administration used for no other reason than to secure public support for the war among the dopey soccer moms who were such strong supporters of Bill Clinton throughout the 1990s.

Sir...I thank you.
We have a winner...

[Joe_October]

If they find WMD's, will you kill yourself? I mean following your logic, when they find them, you will be shown to be a lying, traitorous incompetent. What possible purpose could you have to continue to waste oxygen for the rest of us? Every facet of your life will have been shown to be a complete and utter disaster. That is by your logic.

And all those papers that you read the biased reporting will be exposed as well. I assume you will burn them to the ground as lying incompetents as well?

Or, perhaps, you will have a little patience and accept that maybe things aren't as simple as you propose.

See, sometimes the hyperbole you suggest is inappropriate.

[CSM]

"....not one single case of Al-Qaeda links."

Liar! They have found, and provided to the press, the Al-Qaeda training camp information. They have released documents that are "minutes" from meetings between AQ higher ups and SH's higher ups.

You are the Liar!

[CSM]

"No. But it is an incredibly long time to have 120,000 soldiers in Iraq, when you consider that many of the original estimates of manpower requirements to topple Saddam Hussein in the first place (by the civilians in the Bush administration, of course -- not the military leadership) were nowhere near that high."

If this is true, I would be very interested in seeing these estimates. Please point me in their direction.

[CSM]

I would be interested in it. I don't recall any such claim, but if you provide it I will look at it with open eyes.

I guess the months that he had to fight you leftys was part of GWB's plan to allow for us to go to war in March and allow SH to securly move or hide the WMD.

[Dog Anchor]

WMD has not been found in Iraq.

But WMD has been found and nuetralized in Lybiya as a direct result of the Iraq war.

The WMD black market in WMD has been uncovered as a direct result of the Iraq war.

North Korea and their WMD is on the hot seat as a direct result of the Iraq war.

And the U.S. and selected allies are successful in tracking and locating WMD on the high seas as a direct result of the Iraq war.

Iraqi WMD is either still hidden in Iraq or is in Syria or Lebanon. It existed and it has not been destroyed.

[SylvainSylvain]

Maybe we need to act like a country at war - have a draft, raise troop pay and reenlistment incentives through bond rallies, have George Bush take the lead on fund-raising for the troops and their families, etc. So far, politically, this is a 'don't-step-on-any-toes-at-home police action', not a war like in the past. It seems like the moral equivalent of a too-good to be true credit card offer in the mail for all Americans except the military and their families.

You're absolutely right. Americans at home were never asked to sacrifice anything for this war. In fact the opposite has happened. This is the only time there have ever been tax cuts during an all out war. There should be a special tax to raise revenue to pay for this. Right now the cost of the war isn't even part of the budget! Plus there should be a draft right now - with no loopholes. People with connections and money should have to serve as well as the middle class and poor folks. I honestly believe if the sons and daughters of the politicians in Washington were the ones who were going to be fighting we would never have gotten into this mess in the first place.