"The Alamo": DEFINING HEROISM DOWN

I have seen it, and you don't know what you think you know.
There is certainly no "even handed" portrayal of Santa Anna, and if he did have any good points, they aren't shown in this movie. While not a great flick, it is a good one. There is no doubt from this movie that Crockett, Bowie, and Travis are heroes; they just aren't the kind you find in cartoons, but rather the kind you would probably find right now in places like Iraq.

Exactly. You and I and the dozens of other freepers (except for one) who have actually seen the film have consistently agreed that the fears of a politically correct version were unfounded.

The Texas audience I was in (huge theater in a conservative Dallas suburb) applauded at the end. As so many freepers have described, it was indeed a patriotic film that gave out heroes their due and showed Santa Anna to be a weenie loser.

If it showed anything good about Santa Anna, I and a lot of others missed it, lol. The lack of "even handedness" is why the Mexican groups here are up in arms over it.

We conservatives need to try hard to avoid a knee-jerk victim mentality, or we'll wind up with the Cry Wolf syndrome too.

21 posted on 04/12/2004 9:50:43 PM PDT by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)

I stand corrected. But usually I'm right. I will just have to see it. But because it's disney, I'll wait for DVD.

22 posted on 04/12/2004 9:50:44 PM PDT by abigail2

Thanks txzman, I didn't know that.

23 posted on 04/12/2004 9:51:35 PM PDT by abigail2

To: Always Right

LOL! That's kinda what I expected.

24 posted on 04/12/2004 9:52:15 PM PDT by abigail2

Indeed. Thanks for the ping!

25 posted on 04/12/2004 9:52:53 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl

I think Patrick knows that.

26 posted on 04/12/2004 9:53:51 PM PDT by abigail2

To reply to myself, also, THe Man With No Face...great movie.

27 posted on 04/12/2004 9:55:07 PM PDT by abigail2

To: abigail2; All

Here's some info on the movie....from FreedomAlliance.....it does speak well of this version.

http://www.freedomalliance.org/view_article.php?a_id=357

28 posted on 04/12/2004 9:55:49 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Tagging you.....)

OK, maybe I'll see it before it comes out on DVD.

29 posted on 04/12/2004 9:57:12 PM PDT by abigail2

I saw the movie and liked it. The pre-release rumors of revisionism and PC are mostly unfounded. The final assault is the most accurate I've seen in any movies on the Alamo. There are some throw-away lines that can be considered PC but for the most part it's a good movie.

30 posted on 04/12/2004 9:59:05 PM PDT by SAMWolf (A Bachelor is a man who never makes the same mistake once)

"And like 9-11, what is lost is the massacre at Goliad"

No, it wasn't lost. It was there, and it was one of the things that showed Santa Anna to be the fiend he was.

And for the others, another false rumor is that Crockett surrendered in this movie. He didn't. He stood his ground and charged right back as he and a few others remaining were charged upon by overwhelming #s. They then show him dying bravely and very honorably, mocking Santa Anna.

I can't stand BB Thornton and wasn't thrilled with a few lines, but even the John Wayne version I watched the night before showed Crockett's inner struggle over whether or not to fight. It also showed the drinking problem of Bowie's.

31 posted on 04/12/2004 10:03:23 PM PDT by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)

Thanks for the ping. I haven't seen this film so I can't have a lot of input. I think it is just bad timing for the "Alamo".

You could argue that we remake movies too much but then "The Titanic" would blow that theory all to hell.

I am just not in the mood for this movie....I think that may be it's biggest proplem nation wide.

32 posted on 04/12/2004 10:03:41 PM PDT by TheLion

: ) I don't blame ya for expecting the worst. lol I brought a pencil and paper in with me, fully prepared to note every PC revisionist element.

And as a homeschooling mother who has been focusing on the battle for the last month, I sat between my sons so I could correct them on the spot. lol

But honestly I can only think of about 3 times I needed to.

33 posted on 04/12/2004 10:09:06 PM PDT by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)

Alamo-girl...who better to ask? Are you going to see the movie? Do you have any thoughts?

34 posted on 04/12/2004 10:13:23 PM PDT by abigail2

To: Trinity_Tx; drjimmy; goodnesswins

In addition, this film’s script portrays General Sam Houston, the military victor at the Battle of San Jacinto which allowed Texas to gain its independence from Mexico, as a venereal diseased drunkard; Colonel William Barret Travis, commander of Texan forces at the Alamo, as a dead beat dad and serial adulterer; Colonel James Bowie, the Alamo defender famous for his knife fighting skills, as a land swindling, slave trader; and Davy Crockett, the king of the wild frontier, as a war criminal, who participated in a My Lai style massacre in the Creek Indian War and was captured and executed at the Alamo. By contrast, Manuel Castrillon, a Mexican General who attacked the Alamo, is portrayed as a flawless, noble, and brave hero

This is from a review fromt the link posted above by goodnesswins...what say you?

35 posted on 04/12/2004 10:15:24 PM PDT by abigail2

If it showed anything good about Santa Anna, I and a lot of others missed it, lol.

Is it just me, or did Santa Anna look a lot like this guy on the left when he was captured at San Jacinto?

36 posted on 04/12/2004 10:23:36 PM PDT by drjimmy

"Mel Gibson understands that we yearn for heroes and that they don't have to be perfect, just rise above their nature to do great deeds."

Good, that means that there is still hope for me to do something. ;-)

Hi, Abigail

37 posted on 04/12/2004 10:37:30 PM PDT by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)

I saw the movie. Took the kids and we made fun of the obvious PC moments. Like when Bowie and Travis are about to fight, their verbal insults sound like a metrosexual cat fighting: You left your wife and kids, Well you are a drunk blah blah blah.

I say if you can guide your kids through it, get it on Video and you can rewind and explain the PC crap to the kids. I just felt like since we are in the middle of all this shiite in Iraq, it would be good to keep their Patriotic Spirit up.

Anyway we wup serious butt at the Alamo and against Santa Anita in the end also.

38 posted on 04/12/2004 10:49:09 PM PDT by TomasUSMC

It says:

In addition, this film’s script portrays General Sam Houston, the military victor at the Battle of San Jacinto which allowed Texas to gain its independence from Mexico, as a venereal diseased drunkard;

As closely as I followed it, I missed any reference to venereal disease. As for being a drunkard, it showed the same behavior as the John Wayne version did. The drinking by these men in both movies was shown in a humorous, "these are wild and woolly men" way. On the other hand, the John Wayne version gave this hero only passing notice and did not show the triumphant battle he lead.

Colonel William Barret Travis, commander of Texan forces at the Alamo, as a dead beat dad and serial adulterer;

Well, for one thing, it is the truth. He was an adventurer who left his wife with two children. In this movie, all it showed was her showing up, asking for a divorce, and him insisting that he get custody of his son. When he is assigned to defend the Alamo, a very dangerous mission, he leaves his son with a family he trusts and promises his son that he will come back for him.

Aside from that, which is maybe 5 minutes of the movie, it showed him, just as it did in the John Wayne version, to be a man who was not well liked because of his personal arrogance, but who earns the honor and respect of them as he proves his courage and dedication and willingness to die to be rid of Santa Anna's tyranny. He gives an excellent speech about what they are there for and he fights valiantly.

Colonel James Bowie, the Alamo defender famous for his knife fighting skills, as a land swindling, slave trader;

Which is also true, and which is given only a passing reference, while the rest of the time he is shown to be one of the coolest and most likable characters in the film, as another Freeper put it, "a man anyone would be proud to fight alongside". His death is portrayed as honorable one at the hands of the Bad Guys, and is one of the most tear-jerking scenes in the movie.

I thought this movie portrayed him even more favorably than the John Wayne version did, which mocked his drinking and carousing quite a bit.

and Davy Crockett, the king of the wild frontier, as a war criminal, who participated in a My Lai style massacre in the Creek Indian War and was captured and executed at the Alamo.

Geeeeze "war criminal"... the hyperbole and choice of focus of these and other writers is shameful.

I will say that one of the moments I did talk to the boys about was where Crockett talks about his remorse over the Creek massacre. I thought it was over the top and it irritated me. Tho it was true - he wrote about it in his memoirs. In the movie, they are all gaga eyed over him and he tells the story to stop them from thinkin war is cool...

His execution was honorably portrayed even tho I tend to think he was killed in battle.

By contrast, Manuel Castrillon, a Mexican General who attacked the Alamo, is portrayed as a flawless, noble, and brave hero

Who was a minor role, with so few lines it would be hard to credit him with such broad qualities, while the role of Santa Anna was major and showed him to be a big fat disgusting coward.

39 posted on 04/12/2004 11:07:28 PM PDT by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)

LOL!!! Didn't ya love that they even showed him in his drop-bottom jammies? lol

While Houston gallantly and heroically charges his horse across that field... it was wonderful. : )

40 posted on 04/12/2004 11:10:31 PM PDT by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)

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