Clarifications on the Case for Free Trade

Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | 4/12/04 | Paul Craig Roberts

[Toddsterpatriot]

If someone supports protectionism and other commie style tactics (a la North Korea and Cuba), THEY are being traitors to what we stand for.

I'm with you!!! Havoc and XBob also want de facto government control over corporations that don't "benefit" society to their satisfaction.

[fooman]

.....People can talk all they want about closing down borders and such. But the truth is Genie is out of the bottle. Since technology exists to produce more efficiently(cheaper) outside companies will do it. If government gets involved, it will be bribed, corrupted etc until restrictions are meaningless.....

Great point. whatever we do we do not want too much big governemnt.

[ninenot]

If you accept the theory that PRChina is at war with the USA (and I agree with this, mutatis mutandis) then you will have a hard time convincing us that the PRChinese gummint will accede to "demands" from unarmed peasants for "more democracy."

"More human rights" demands don't get too far over there, either.

What changed?

[schu]

From the WSJ this AM.

Record Imports Drive China's Trade Deficit To $540 Million in March

A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP April 12, 2004 12:50 p.m.

BEIJING -- Driven by record imports, China's trade deficit swelled to $540 million in March, widening its total deficit for the first three months of the year to $8.4 billion, state-controlled media said Monday.

Both imports and exports recorded monthly historical highs with imports in March up 42.8% to $46.4 billion, while exports were up 42.9% to $45.8 billion, the reports said.

Customs officials said the sharp rise in imports was driven by "the country's sustained need for raw materials and energy" for its booming economy, according to the Web site of the Communist Party newspaper People's Daily.

Is it perfect? Life seldom is.

[Cronos]

Immediate repeal of MFN for all countries which do NOT have Western human rights standards. (That takes out India and China right off the top.)

Wrong again, that takes out only China, India has got a western style democracy with the same Western human rights standards. In case you missed it they're having an election now, with half a billion voters and they've been having elections continuously since their independence.

[ninenot]

Ahhh-look a little further. India's non-metropolitan areas are damn near Wild West. Lotsa people getting killed over there, principally Muslim/Hindu/Christian conflicts.

Personally, I'm not as concerned with India as with PRChina.

[Cronos]

You think that the economies of European nations from 1900-1939 were TOTALLY separated? definitely more separated than now.

[Cronos]

If you accept the theory that PRChina is at war with the USA (and I agree with this, mutatis mutandis) then you will have a hard time convincing us that the PRChinese gummint will accede to "demands" from unarmed peasants for "more democracy."
I don't believe the PRC will support political reform any more than the KMT supported it in Taiwan or the S Korean govt did but it WILL have to happen, as chinese folks get richer

[Cronos]

Ahhh-look a little further. India's non-metropolitan areas are damn near Wild West. Lotsa people getting killed over there, principally Muslim/Hindu/Christian conflicts.

Well, the country has a free press and human rights (national and international) agencies are given free reign to investigate and make changes. Those conflicts were sporadic, I dont' think I've heard of any things like that recently, unless you consider the slammie terrorist attacks on that country as freedom fighters not jihadis....

[fooman]

...No Lie, the commerce dept called me when WJC was in office and asked me if it was OK to give a couple of my patents to a Chinese delegation they had coming to town.

Pigs, I always wonder actually how much and what, they gave our enemies ...

Wow. This is why we have to carefull in allowing government involvement.

[InABunkerUnderSF]

China sees herself as she has always seen herself - The Middle Kingdom, the center of her cosmos. The best modern demonstration of China's thinking was demonstrated when Clinton visited the city of Xian in 1999. The Chinese insisted that he enter the city through the "Barbarian Gate". This is the entrance by which foreigners traditionally entered in order to pay tribute to their hegemon. And they liked Clinton.

Barbarian attitudes relating to "human rights", "free trade" and "democracy" are of no real relevance to Chinese political thinking.

[RockyMtnMan]

Good find, maybe econmists will begin to re-examine the concept of free-trade and the ramifications it has for our future.

[swarthyguy]

Y'know it's hard to deal with people who seem analytically and politically blind, or wear ColdWar covered glasses, and treat India as the enemy.

Frankly, who cares, they're about as relevant as old Stalinists in Russia.

But Thanks to you for keeping on keeping on.

[dimk]

Some good points

1.It is not that their code is bad by itself, some of it is but normally it is good enough. What they lack is good architects and designers with good understanding of business processes. This is just from my experience. Also overall organization on their projects is normally lacking. I have no doubt they will get better, but as they get better they will start charging more. In fact it is happening already.

2. I completely disagree about this. There are tons of new stuff being developed atm. Quality of the code and designs produced been improving steadily. One look at site like sourceforge.net (open source) shows how many new projects people are starting just for the heck of it. There are dozens of areas where lots of software development is needed.

3. This does happen alot. People who are being replaced with indians need to probably look at how to upgrade their skills to become more competitive again. I am trying to do this continuously, if I am not working on the project I try to learn new system, new approach etc

4. Well I already been in this race for a bit. To have the skills I can bring these people need to work as hard as me if they are as smart as me(some are some are not). In fact they keep me awake and not able to take stuff for granted that makes life more exciting.

Reason I waited to buy house is that I am saving money(nothing very risky just 4-5% annual return) as a backup for when I lose my job and need to have mortgage paid(I aim for 1 year of comfortable life). Also being a contractor it is a necessity, I am never totally employed sometimes I work 70hours a week sometimes I have nothing to do for a month. I am not sure that as I get older(more experienced too) the race will get harder. Senior people do get paid much more, until I retire I want to try and push up see how far up can I get. In current economy it is hard to stay in one spot, best to work in one spot for 2-3 years then move on to something else

[Havoc]

High tariffs would tie down this economy and make the country a basket case like the other closed economies in the world

We were doing fine up to the point this free trade crap kicked in. There is no basis on which to say what you're saying other that the free traitor dream of destructive profiteering. You guys will mutter anything if it convinces people to let you destroy people and our economy so you can further enrich yourselves. That's something our constitution and government are supposed to protect us from - it's called tyranny.

[Havoc]

No, that's a lie. This country has historically grown due to it's own innovation, work ethic and standard trade with other nations. Free trade came about under Nafta. How could you be so ignorant or so decietful as to try and make such a statement? Oh, wait, forgot - modus operandi - lie until called on it but keep shovelling smoke in the hopes that someone will buy one of the lies.

[Havoc]

PBS documentary if memory serves. I can't tell you the name of it, so guess you'll have to go do your homework and satisfy yourself - just as anyone else here can do. As far as my having gone to school with indian imigrants, the sentences may appear disjointed for the things I didn't say - like that one of them I knew quite well.. Spent a lot of time with her and her family. Suppose people never talk about life when they have such involvements - must just sit back and watch the simpsons or something huh.. lol.

[Havoc]

I believe I posted a link earlier on the thread, did I not? Are you just a johnny come lately looking for something to throw a fit about because you didn't bother to read the exchange to date before charging? You might check, cause I know I posted that link on at least two occasions last night.

[fooman]

Some may miss the ref to Atlas Shrugged here. It is very easy to fall down slippery slope of government intervention here.

[GOP_1900AD]

At the end of the day, we have tolerated the experimentation driven by dogmatic, doctrinaire, Libertarian purists, for far too long, and with far less than advertised net benefit. It is time to move on and to formally discredit said doctrine, and return to our true republican roots. The core values held by Wm. McKinley are an excellent baseline which we could use to resurrect the true, GOP spirit.