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To: Filibuster_60
I don't know if our Iraqi friends know that there were many dark periods in our road to liberty -- many times when things seemed to be "spiralling out of control," or worse.

It took us years, but things worked out well in the end.

Here's a short flashback to one of the darkest times. I think there's a message here for good people in Iraq:

"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."

Thomas Paine, "The Crisis," December 23, 1776.

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/crisis/c-01.htm
19 posted on 04/11/2004 3:40:52 PM PDT by 68skylark
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To: 68skylark
Beautiful post, 68skylark. You should consider posting it as a vanity posting on its own thread.
25 posted on 04/11/2004 3:48:14 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: 68skylark
The Iraqis won't fight for their freedom - the past week has shown that.
27 posted on 04/11/2004 3:55:11 PM PDT by Filibuster_60
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To: 68skylark
I don't know if our Iraqi friends know that there were many dark periods in our road to liberty -- many times when things seemed to be "spiralling out of control," or worse.

That very nice sounding but it's a terrible analogy.

The people we were fighting in the Revolutionary, and civil war for example were very much like each other, basically civilized, educated for the day, but had basic differences about being independent, who was going to be in charge or in control. Was it brutal, yes, but it was very different. Both side to some extent could generally reason, and both sides did not consist of murdering, blood thirsty fanatics.

These people in the Mid East are not like either side in the civil war, or those of England that did not want us to be independent.

We are dealing with fanatically religious, medieval minds, right from the middle ages. These people walk into a restaurants full of innocent families and blow themselves and everyone up. And they do this routinely. Their battle plan is to just kill as many people as possible, innocent lives mean nothing to them. That's why they are called terrorist.

57 posted on 04/11/2004 6:12:52 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: 68skylark
The Words of Thomas Paine--once again--Bring "Tears to my Eyes."

I FEAR That our "Contemporaries" are TOO COARSE to understand the Meaning of Mr Paine's Words.

GOD HELP US--I FEAR; WE Fear--that Our "Citizens" have become SO IGNORANT that they can NO LONGER Understand the Value of our "Citizenship."

Despite the "CESS" Heaped upon us, "American CITIZENSHIP" is the "GOLD STANDARD!!"

Outside of "Canadian, British, Irish, Scottish" Visa's; there are NO accepted "visas!"

Despite "PC," there is NO WAY that "English-Speaking Cultures" can EVER TRUST other Cultures--especially "Islamic Cultures!!"

Islam has a LONG History of LYING to Those who would Trust It.

"Islam" has a LONG History of LYING to "Infidels," because It Believes that it (Islam) has NO OBLIGATION to tell "The Truth" to "Infidels."

59 posted on 04/11/2004 6:55:42 PM PDT by Doc On The Bay
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