Ceasefire collapses, US hostage taken in Iraq

abc.net.au ^ | AM - Saturday, 10 April , 2004 08:00:58 | Peter Cave

[blam]

"Pray for the bravely defiant Thomas Hamil....

Maybe Thomas Hamilton?

[ChadGore]

I doubt very much these peecenicks were "held" at all. This smells more like a staged PR stunt than anything.

[EDINVA]

and now they are freeing the Japanese hostages !!!

[Filibuster_60]

I'm afraid there's actually more chaos in parts of Iraq than even the liberal media can get hold of. Just today I saw a picture of an Abrams tank ablaze in Baghdad - the crew must've gotten away otherwise it would've been reported in a separate story.

For every US combat fatality there must be 10-15 attacks by the enemy, many of which leave our troops wounded. The Pentagon rarely reports attacks that don't cause at least one US death - unless the wounded are too many.

[Jim Noble]

These savages have no concept of a "Better way of Life", so we will show them a nightmare of existence.

Supreme Allied Commander candidate #3.

[MEG33]

The report said a ten year old fired the RPG or Mortar that set that tank on fire..TEN year old.One tank is not good but neither is it a fire fight on every block.

[Steel Wolf]

The 'ceasefire' is likely for domestic (Iraqi) consumption. Many people here are worried that the U.S. is so angry about the recent murder/mutilations that we're going to burn Fallujah to the ground. It's certainly how Saddam would have handled them.

If nothing else we're making a show that we're willing to let the bad guys come out with their hands up. This isn't for their benefit, but for the non-fanatical residents of Fallujah. I know it's easy to say 'Screw em all', but there are a lot of innocent people there that are afraid of the fanatics. If they can be spared, the effort should be made.

That having been said, the fanatics probably won't surrender, and this will result in us having to smash much of the town to get at them. A lot of people who just want to be left alone will wind up dead. That is unfortunate, but if the bad guys won't come quietly, they must be brought in by force. It's a pretty lousy situation, but I think we're handling it pretty well.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

Hundreds of Sunni Mujahideen or Holy warriors armed with rocket propelled grenades, attacked a convoy of oil tankers taking fuel to US forces besieged in the town of Fallujah, destroying at least a dozen trucks and killing or wounding several drivers.

Well...beyond the question of whether this is accurate...if it is, we've simply got to wonder why these convoys are not more heavily guarded. These irregulars seem to have the ability to attack the soft targets in our supply train. That is, of course, the point of infiltration, but if you have a convoy that is a nice target it would seem that you'd put some choppers in the air around it and have some other air assets nearby to make life hell for the attackers. Or perhaps use phoney convoys as ambushes...or spend a little more effort sweeping the ground around your line of transit. Given that the enemy isn't trying to win a war in the conventional sense -- just trying to break our will to keep forces that far from home -- perhaps a little more effort to protect our soft targets in the hot zone wouldn't hurt.

[Filibuster_60]

That's plain impossible - a 10-year-old can barely lift an RPG let alone aim it at a safe distance.

[MEG33]

This convoy attack happened yesterday .I believe we have two soldiers and another person missing.No word on the soldiers.One soldier dead in this attack.12 wounded

Al Jazeera is reporting captured American will be killed if we don't pull out of Fallujah.

[MEG33]

I report,You decide!I wasn't there.

[Enterprise]

"The real issue is, Is this war necessary?"

The real question is, which war do we want to fight? Do we want to fight this war, where we have the manpower and resources available right now? Or do we want to pull out, let the Islamofascists take over, shut off the oil, overwhelm Europe, and THEN get back into it? Fight the savages now, or fight them later, it's our choice. With the Republicans in power, we fight them now on our terms. With the RATS in power, we will fight them later, when it will be infinitely harder, and our forces will take unimaginable casualties.

[Screaming_Gerbil]

MOAB in a hostage situation?

One hostage. After they kill him, drop the MOAB right on top of them.

[jellybean]

Several more kilometres down the road and tens of thousands have gathered chanting "Jihad", or "holy war" in the huge Sunni mosque Saddam built on the western edge of Baghdad

I believe this is what's called a Golden opportunity!!

[in the Arena]

How come nobody is reporting on the two missing soldiers?

First I've heard of this...can you point me to the source ?

[Cold Heat]

I am shocked that this is the second post that hates that this news is printed.

The coverage of the guys in the field are indeed exeptional.

The story writing by the reporters confined to a cubicle or a Bagdad hotel room are misleading and tend to make the reader believe that this situation is out of control and spreading, which is not the case at all.

In three weeks, this will all be forgotten as the media generally has it's few minutes of hyperventalating.

When that happens they will return to the whine and cheese format where they count dead marines and fail to mention why they died or why we are there, they will only say that nothing is getting better, over and over again.

We are in this alone, no mattter what anyone says, this is America's problem. We have always been alone in this regard.

My comments are meant in a general way and I do not mean to nail everyone with a shotgun blast. But the reporting in a macro view is terrible, biased and nothing more than a gloom and doom attempt to force the U.S. to withdraw.

[WOSG]

"With all due respect Destro, Iran and Syria are most likely already engaged. I'm not convinced that cleaning them out now is not a good idea. I'll defer to the President here, but this possibility certainly seem worthy of discussion."

Dittos on this. You see occasional news ticker reports that "foreign fighters detained" and found. And of course it is being openly reported that Iran back M. Sadr with lots of $$ and arms... outside Muslim Jihadist forces have been engaged in attempts to derail the coalition from day one ...

Now lookee here, the Jihadists had ONE MONTH AGO DECIDED TO OPEN UP A SECOND "FRONT" - this comes by the way from an anti-US and anti-Iraq war front, so it is an admission that THIS WAS A DECISION MADE A FEW WEEKS BACK TO CREATE A SHIA PROVOCATION:

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2004-04/09/article07.shtml


‘Stirring Shiite Resistance’ Decided In London: Report

Sadr faces arrest warrant by occupation forces

By Hadi Yahmid, IOL Correspondent

PARIS, April 9 (IslamOnline.net) - A decision to “stir the Iraqi Shiite resistance against the U.S.-led occupation” was agreed during a conference secretly held in London in mid-March, IslamOnlin.net could reveal.

The conference was attended by representatives of several major Islamic movements in Europe, along with some figures close to firebrand young Shiite leader Moqtada al-Sadr.

A representative of an Islamic movement in Europe told IOL Thursday, April8 , asking not to be named, “the secret debate to move the Shiite front against the American occupation in Iraq marked the most prominent among the recommendations of the Discreet Islamic Conference that was held in London March13 -14”.

The conference, according to the source, comprised some distinguished Islamic movements in Europe, representatives of Iraqi Islamic movement (Sunni and Shiite), especially a representative of Sadr, in addition to a representative of the international organization of Lebanese Hezbollah.

The source, however, stopped short of clarifying whether the recent - still going - confrontation between Sadr supporters and occupation forces was a direct outcome of that conference, or whether the attendees have actually laid down a form or date for activating the Shiite resistance.

“The Conference, entitled Islamic Movement and Iraq, witnessed a complete media blackout and it was held under maximum secrecy in one of London Islamic centers. Its goal was finding the necessary means for activating the Shiite front of Iraqi resistance.

“The attendees asserted that Sunni resistance alone was not enough for turning the balance of power with the occupying forces,” the source added.

So, they agreed to move the Shiite resistance from peaceful protests to a “much more effective role”.

Tripartite Agenda

The source said that representatives of Islamic groups clinched an agreement on a tripartite agenda, including speeding up Shiites’ inclusion in resistance operations against occupation forces.

Also, they agreed to avoid any armed clashes between Sunnis and Shiites after the handover of power scheduled for June30 .

The attendees found a common ground on the need to have a multi-party democratic system getting benefit of earlier experiences in Islamic countries.

The attendees also agreed to grant Sadr a larger margin of maneuverability on the ground - through straining relations and then facing occupation forces.

The U.S. occupation forces said Monday, April5 , it had issued an arrest warrant for Sadr, as the Shiite leader vowed defiance calling for an end to the one-year American occupation.

Shiite scholars have warned that U.S. troops of acting “irrationally” after up to 52 Iraqi protesters were killed Sunday, April4 , in the worst confrontations between Iraq’s Shiite majority and the U.S.-led occupation troops sine the start of the invasion one year ago.

The protesters were denouncing the crushing of two fellowmen by a U.S. tank on Saturday, April3 , the arrest of Sadr’s top assistant Sheikh Mostafa Al-Yaqoubi and a ban on Al-Hawza newspaper, Sadr’s mouthpiece.

U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld had ruled out an Iran-style religious government in Iraq.

“You're suggesting, how would we feel about an Iranian-type government with a few clerics running everything in the country, the answer is: That isn't going to happen," Rumsfeld have said.

The temporary national constitution, agreed by the U.S.-appointed Governing Council last month, also recognizes Islam as a source of the legislation rather than the only source.

[Cold Heat]

There are two MIA's from the fuel convoy that was hit, days ago.

Some radicals claim a kidnap and the military says that there is no evidence of that. They say that it may be that the bodies were destroyed by the fire and the evidence obscured by looting.

Looks like it may be 50/50 unless someone comes up with evidence either way. Right now, they are MIA officially.

[Travis McGee]

Or Thomas Hammel, etc. At least he got his name out, and his defiance in captivity was recorded forever.

God Bless this warrior!!!!

[WOSG]

The 'ceasefire' is likely for domestic (Iraqi) consumption. Many people here are worried that the U.S. is so angry about the recent murder/mutilations that we're going to burn Fallujah to the ground. It's certainly how Saddam would have handled them.

You are right. This Al Jazeera network is having a field day making everyone killed a 'civilian' and provoking outrage on the unfortunate but understandiable collateral damage that occurs when the terrorists use civilians as human shields and when they take advantage of our tight rules engagement.

If nothing else we're making a show that we're willing to let the bad guys come out with their hands up. This isn't for their benefit, but for the non-fanatical residents of Fallujah. I know it's easy to say 'Screw em all', but there are a lot of innocent people there that are afraid of the fanatics. If they can be spared, the effort should be made.

The 'fallujah' demands for ceasefire was for the marines to pull out of the town. This is what tried - and failed - before, less troops getting killed, but it became a haven for terrorists, a nest of vipers. Now we are attacking that nest. If the ceasefire" is that we keep the cordon and Iraqi police run the city and hand over baddies, great. if the ceasefire is we withdraw and give the jihadists time to regroup or escape, then all is lost.

Someone correctly on this board said that the fundamental rule needs to be that the coalition and allies (iraqi police and defense force) have the monopoly on force, no other forces allowed. That has to be the non-negotiable fundamental decision.

If the marines are making one mistake, it is going about this so slowly. Probably more force and a quicker operation would obviate this kind of nonsense about saving fallujah from americans, which feeds off the news cycle. The "ideal" operation would start at midnight and be a fait accompli by dawn. Then let the civilians clean up the blood on the streets of the 'insurgents'.