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To: Toddsterpatriot
When people who don't own the corporation get the government to force the corporation to do what they want, rather than what the owners want, that is socialism.

What, you mean like getting them to stop using slave labor? Child labor? Sweatshop labor?... We as the public have every right to put restrictions on you because as in any other area of life, people time and again cannot be trusted to do the right thing. There have been more than a few good books written and movies filmed on such issues. You act like it's never been done before and that no right exists to put limits on the behavior of people. That isn't socialism, that is civility.. ensuring that society has some measure of protection from those in our midst who would use use and or abuse us.

There used to be a time in this country when people would ask of themselves what the rammifications were on other people before they made weighty decisions. Today that has been replaced by concern solely over money. Personally, if I have to live under constant threat of ruin by tyrants, I'm better off to shred my SSN, sell what I have and find a nice piece of moutainside where no one will bother me. When you can't get civilized conduct from what purports to be civilization, it ain't worth it. If you can't provide security in a society, It offers nothing. We might as well all be living on a mountainside, we'd at least know we could rely on ourselves. It's a pretty deep subversion when you teach people that the things they've setup in society to secure themselves can't be counted on. It's nothing short of pseudo organized anarchy. And that is why it leads to revolution. But that is also why we make laws to prevent such subversions.

You know what Tojo, Mussolini, Hitler, Ghengis, Attilla, and Napoleon all have in common - they all thought they were doing something for the greater good. And they even said as much. It's their actions and results that tell us otherwise, just as now with free trade.

398 posted on 04/11/2004 11:22:56 PM PDT by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
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To: Havoc
What, you mean like getting them to stop using slave labor? Child labor? Sweatshop labor?... We as the public have every right to put restrictions on you because as in any other area of life, people time and again cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

So, EDS is using child, slave or sweathop labor?

Notice the irony in your post?

We as the public....people time and again cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

So, my people cannot be trusted so your people have the right to restrict.

Gotta control those greedy kulaks, they're hurting the revolution. You've become a parody of yourself.

401 posted on 04/11/2004 11:32:44 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot
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To: Havoc
So, I suppose you're in favor of sugar import quotas and steel tariffs? Gotta protect that US industry, right?
404 posted on 04/11/2004 11:38:57 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot
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To: Havoc
Personally, if I have to live under constant threat of ruin by tyrants, I'm better off to shred my SSN, sell what I have and find a nice piece of moutainside where no one will bother me. When you can't get civilized conduct from what purports to be civilization, it ain't worth it. If you can't provide security in a society, It offers nothing. We might as well all be living on a mountainside, we'd at least know we could rely on ourselves. It's a pretty deep subversion when you teach people that the things they've setup in society to secure themselves can't be counted on. It's nothing short of pseudo organized anarchy. And that is why it leads to revolution.

Great passage. Similar ones are in the Bible:

" So Jeroboam and all Israel came and spake to Rehoboam, saying,

Thy father made our yoke grievous: now therefore ease thou somewhat the grievous servitude of thy father, and his heavy yoke that he put upon us, and we will serve thee.

And he said unto them, Come again unto me after three days. And the people departed.

And king Rehoboam took counsel with the old men that had stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, saying, What counsel give ye me to return answer to this people?

And they spake unto him, saying, If thou be kind to this people, and please them, and speak good words to them, they will be thy servants for ever.

But he forsook the counsel which the old men gave him, and took counsel with the young men that were brought up with him, that stood before him.

And he said unto them, What advice give ye that we may return answer to this people, which have spoken to me, saying, Ease somewhat the yoke that thy father did put upon us?

And the young men that were brought up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou answer the people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it somewhat lighter for us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loins.

For whereas my father put a heavy yoke upon you, I will put more to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day, as the king bade, saying, Come again to me on the third day.

And the king answered them roughly; and king Rehoboam forsook the counsel of the old men,

And answered them after the advice of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add thereto: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

So the king hearkened not unto the people: for the cause was of God, that the LORD might perform his word, which he spake by the hand of Ahijah the Shilonite to Jeroboam the son of Nebat.

And when all Israel saw that the king would not hearken unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? and we have none inheritance in the son of Jesse: every man to your tents, O Israel: and now, David, see to thine own house. So all Israel went to their tents.
[..]
Then king Rehoboam sent Hadoram that was over the tribute; and the children of Israel stoned him with stones, that he died. But king Rehoboam made speed to get him up to his chariot, to flee to Jerusalem. "

(2Chron:10:3-16,18)

451 posted on 04/12/2004 5:36:55 AM PDT by A. Pole (<SARCASM> The genocide of Albanians was stopped in its tracks before it began.</S>)
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