An Open letter to President Bush (End run vs. Outsourcing)

Me | Me

[ARCADIA]

Ten years ago GM made almost 5 million cars per year with over 500,000 employees. Today, GM makes more than 5 million cars per year with some 188,000 employees...and their quality is better, too.

The missing 312,000+ employees are now employed by GM suppliers in other countries. Just becuase they are no longer on GM reported payrolls does not mean that the jobs have miraculously been automated. We have simply fired American workers and replaced them with subsidized foreign labor.

[Southack]

"Lets just crank open those printing presses and give every American citizen a $1,000,000,000.00 to invest. Our GDP will drop by 4%" ... Oh BTW, if our imports are SOoooo insignificant then why don't we just seal the borders and make everyone happy? It is just 4% right?!?!"

Lets get the numbers right. Our total imports are 9.5% of our GDP. Our total exports are 5.5% of our GDP. There is a 4% trade imbalance.

Changing the foreign exchange value of the Dollar affects, after the dust settles, that 4% imbalance. Drop the Dollar by 20%, and it impacts 20% of 4%, or a total of only .8% of our GDP.

Those are the relevant numbers and basic math. No need to argue about them, as they are just facts.

[Southack]

"The missing 312,000+ employees are now employed by GM suppliers in other countries. Just becuase they are no longer on GM reported payrolls does not mean that the jobs have miraculously been automated. We have simply fired American workers and replaced them with subsidized foreign labor."

Considering the purchase of thousands upon thousands of robots, I rather doubt what you are saying, but I'll give you one chance to show a linkable source to prove that your claim is more than hot air. Next post, please.

[ARCADIA]

Start here if you want to; but the best source of information is sitting on the store shelves nearest you.

http://www.iet.duq.edu/igw/docs/SCTE_China.pdf

...your claim is more than hot air...

LOL, look who is calling the kettle black...

[Sam the Sham]

"What is fascinating is the political collapse of free trade. The only Democratic pro-free trade candidate was Lieberman and his candidacy went nowhere fast."

Oh please. Senator and now Presidential candidate Kerry voted *YES* to ratify NAFTA.

How dim you are. That's the whole point. People who supported free trade a decade ago have abandoned it since. Kerry understands that with opposing free trade and outsourcing he has a weapon that can beat Bush much more effectively than running as the antiwar candidate. Didn't you grasp the meaning behind support for free trade among workers earning six figures HALVING over the past three years ?

[Sam the Sham]

Perot and Buchanan were prophets before their time.

To be precise a prophet by a definition has to be "before" his time. :) On the other hand their detractors are being proven to be the false prophets.

I stand corrected with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[XBob]

ping

you two need to meet.

I Been there, done that, in both your positions.

[Southack]

Your own source contradicts your claim absolutely by revealing that China has LOST manufacturing jobs over the last decade. Here is what your own source from your link above said on Page 23:

 

"Deindustrialization is not unique to the U.S.

 

Economists at Alliance Capital Management estimate 31 million lost manufacturing jobs worldwide between 1995-2002

 

Due to the contraction of China's State Owned Enterprises (SOE's), it is estimated to have lost as many as 25 million [Chinese] jobs in that span, almost ten times that of the U.S. and more than 20% of their total manufacturing employment.

 

The primary reason for recent manufacturing losses is sluggish global demand, particularly the advanced economies of Japan and Western Europe."

[Southack]

"People who supported free trade a decade ago have abandoned it since. Kerry understands that with opposing free trade and outsourcing he has a weapon that can beat Bush much more effectively than running as the antiwar candidate."

What typical Democratic Party drivel. Senator Kerry voted *FOR* NAFTA back in 1993, and he has never once submitted so much as a single bill to repeal it since then.

Face it, your boy is a free trader, NAFTA and all to this very day.

[ARCADIA]

Drop the Dollar by 20%, and it impacts 20% of 4%, or a total of only .8% of our GDP.

Oh I get it. If we drop the dollar by 100% it will result in a drop in GDP of 100% of 4%, or just 4%. Wow! It sounds good to me; get them money presses going. I can't wait to see the expression on their faces when OPEC, China and India discover that they are holding a bunch of worthless paper. Now that's going to be a real Kodak moment.

(warning: the preceding paragraph represents a sharp departure from the real world. Globalist apparently occupy an alternative universe)

[Southack]

"I can't wait to see the expression on their faces when OPEC, China and India discover that they are holding a bunch of worthless paper."

OPEC has already adjusted to the falling Dollar (seen oil prices recently?!).

China and India both want the Dollar to be high, that's why they are hoarding Dollars. India alone holds more than $110 Billion in U.S. currency.

What you are failing to accept is that foreign governments such as China and India are intervening in the market; i.e. the market is no longer a free trading market. What we have going on is international currency manipulation on a large scale.

This manipulation makes the price of imports into the U.S. artificially low. It is a stealth subsidy of Indian and Chinese industry.

To counter this de facto subsidy, our Fed is letting the Dollar fall back towards what would normally be its true free market value. This will take some amount of time, and yes, the currency holdings of India and China will drop dramatically in value. They seem willing to risk such an investment strategy, however, probably in the hopes that the U.S. will change Administrations to someone who lets them play their currency manipulation game a little longer at the expense of American jobs in the meantime.

[Sam the Sham]

The Democratic base that lost on NAFTA, that Clinton was only able to win on because the GOP supported it, is driving the entire Democratic nominating process. Kerry is running as fast as he can from free trade positions with his "Benedict Arnold CEO's" rhetoric.

The hostility to free trade that pervades all workers these days, blue collar and white collar, is incredible.

Tell me some more on what will happen when OPEC switches from dollars to euros. Has your brain ever considered that ?

[ARCADIA]

Your own source contradicts your claim absolutely by revealing that China has LOST manufacturing jobs over the last decade.

Communist State Owned Enterprises employing prehistoric manufacturing techniques are certainly a thing of the past. But, it is disingenous to use that to mask the real shift in jobs away from the US. Care to comment on the rest of it?

[Southack]

"Kerry is running as fast as he can from free trade positions with his "Benedict Arnold CEO's" rhetoric."

More partisan nonsense. Kerry is an active U.S. Senator. The U.S. Senate is in session right now.

Yet Kerry won't submit a bill, and hasn't submitted a bill, to repeal NAFTA. He likes NAFTA. His wife makes out like a bandit due to NAFTA, and you union rank and file don't care that he won't repeal NAFTA because you've been ordered by your betters to support Kerry no matter how much he likes NAFTA.

[ARCADIA]

This manipulation makes the price of imports into the U.S. artificially low. It is a stealth subsidy of Indian and Chinese industry.

I agree with everything that you posted in #231. :-)

[Southack]

"Tell me some more on what will happen when OPEC switches from dollars to euros. Has your brain ever considered that ?"

The Dollar would drop in value. The export based economies of China and India would collapse overnight (because everything they sold to their largest customer would skyrocket in cost).

U.S. exports would become radically cheaper and more competitive globally, and the U.S. economy would boom as it switched over to making the goods and services domestically that it was formerly importing before the collapse of the value of the Dollar.

[Southack]

"Communist State Owned Enterprises employing prehistoric manufacturing techniques are certainly a thing of the past. But, it is disingenous to use that to mask the real shift in jobs away from the US. Care to comment on the rest of it?"

What your own source said was that *every* industrialized economy in the world lost massive numbers of manufacturing jobs between 1995 and 2002.

So jobs didn't shift from the U.S,. to China. Jobs disappeared in the U.S., and jobs disappeared in China...per your source. 25 million jobs were lost in that time period in China. 2.5 million such manufacturing jobs were lost in the U.S. Europe lost such jobs, and Japan lost such jobs, too.

Your source says that decreased demand caused those manufacturing job losses.

My own opinion is that new technology replaced those jobs (e.g. painting and welding robots replacing painters and welders on assembly lines).

That's not "disingenuous." That's black and white facts and straightforward extrapolations.

[Sam the Sham]

Since Democrats no longer have a majority in the Senate and there is no way Bush would sign it, that would be a rather stupid thing to do, now wouldn't it ?

The Democratic base never supported free trade. I know you constantly babble about a Democratic Senate passing NAFTA ignoring the fact that THE MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATIC SENATORS VOTED AGAINST IT.

Sure, go ahead. Halve the value of the dollar. Then watch the Fed have to increase interest rates to double digits to sell 30 year bonds the way it did back in the 70's.

[Southack]

"I agree with everything that you posted in #231. :-)"

You are very kind to say that. Thank you.

I did have to read it twice, though...just to be sure it said what I thought it did. You definitely surprised me on that post!

[XBob]

11 - "Global competion is here to stay, so get competitive and enjoy the fruits of your labors."

Better yet, Havoc, get a job as a refrigerator repairman. I bet you can trundle your wheel chair all over the place.

refer smoker - tell me where I can send a Mexican to do your job at half your price.

Got to keep up this work to keep you on your smug, sell satisfied ball, and so you can retrain too.