FR Exclusive: Jeb answers questions about his support of drivers licenses for undocumented workers

Note to FR, from summer:

FYI -- I am posting here below: (1) an email I sent to Gov Bush today, (2) his email response to me, and (3) another email response he directed to me, and you, from his office.

As most people here know (because I wrote about it at length on FR), I previously had a long dialogue with Gov Bush about education, via email. And, at times, I have emailed him about issues of concern to people on FR.

Consequently, this is another exclusive for you.

summer

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Email #1, from me to Gov Bush, today:

-----Original Message-----

From: [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:11 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: FR person's fax to you

FR Person's fax to you

Gov Bush, I'm sending a copy of this to you, as suggested in the headline, so that if you want to respond online, to the people reading it, let me know and I will post it for you. [summer]

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Email #2, from Gov Bush to me, in response to above:

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: FR person's fax to you

[summer], I will get [my office] to respond to you.

Jeb

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Email #3, directed by Gov Bush to me and you, from his office, to all here:

----- Original Message -----

From: [Gov Bush's office]
To: 'Jeb Bush'; [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: FR person's fax to you

[summer] --

I hope the below Q&A is helpful. Please let me know if you need anything else.

Best,

[Gov Bush's office]

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Florida Safe Driving Act

[1] Why give driver licenses to undocumented aliens?

Florida has no power over immigration and naturalization issues, but it does have a duty to protect the safety of its citizens. Allowing Florida’s more than 400,000 illegal aliens to obtain a driver license under very strict conditions will increase safety on our roads and highways. It will boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws.

Also, a separate provision in the bill makes it easier for people with visas to renew their Florida driver licenses. Many individuals from outside the country visit Florida annually for an extended period of time. The new law allows them to renew their licenses every two years, rather than having it automatically expire every time they leave the country.

[2]Why wouldn’t the state just deport the aliens once they have verified their identity?

Under Federal law, no state has the power to deport anyone; it is exclusively the domain of the Federal government.

[3]What does the bill require?

This bill creates some of the highest verification standards in the country. It has more than 15 requirements for approval, and it requires the consulates to provide the applicant’s documentation to the state of Florida.

Aliens would be required to:

Ø show an identification card with digital image that has been produced with standards that would prevent counterfeiting;

Ø provide a second form of identification;

Ø submit fingerprints to the state; and

Ø agree to a criminal background check from their country of origin, the state of Florida and the United States.

The bill creates a mechanism for Florida to work with foreign consulates to approve a stringent means by which to verify the alien’s identity and ensure the consulate is not issuing a duplicate ID. Any consulate that cannot meet these verification standards will not be able to participate in the program.

Among the requirements consulates must show:

Ø documentation that the applicant has not been convicted, or is wanted of a crime equal to a felony in his home country;

Ø a certified copy of the applicant’s official driving record from home country;

Ø certification that the form of identification is legitimate;

Ø certification that the underlying documents used to issue identification are legitimate; and

Ø certification that the home country has security system in place to prevent multiple issuance of identification cards to the same individual.

[4] Who does this bill not apply to?

Aliens from countries on the U.S. State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism are prohibited from applying, as are those who are subject to an order of deportation. Felons cannot apply nor can aliens who cannot establish presence in the state for at least six months in the past five years.

[5] How does this differ from California law?

First, California law did not exclude applicants from the list of countries maintained by the U.S. Department of State as state sponsors of terrorism. In addition, California did not require state and national criminal background checks, nor did it provide procedures in conjunction with foreign consulates to verify identity and criminal backgrounds with an applicant’s home country.

[6] Where will the licenses be valid?

The licenses are valid in Florida only, for two years. They will have a distinct look from standard driver licenses.

[7]How will the bill be implemented?

Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles will be responsible for adopting stringent procedures and coordinating with the consulates to ensure verifications of identity and background history of aliens. Consulates will have to provide certifications of the processes they have in place to establish identity of their citizens who apply. If a consulate does not meet these standards, their citizens will be prohibited from applying.

[8]What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

What do you think. or are you still absorbing it all?

Hello again, ladyinred. I have now read all the posts on this thread and I have reached some of my own conclusions, a few of which I will share with you here.

Before I begin, I would like to just say that my own grandparents are immigrants, on both sides of my family, with one of my sets of grandparents always voting Republican, and the other set of grandparents always voting Dem. And, both sets of grandparents came here for economic opportunity, and very much wanted to, and did, assimilate into the USA. So, on one hand, I am sympathetic to immigrants because that is in fact my own background as well.

But I would also like to say that I have found myself very sympathetic to the repeated arguments made on this forum by many that our borders are out of control, and while I realize this situation did not begin the day GW took office, I am not convinced it has radically improved, either. When FR had a poll up a while back on what we should do with our borders, I voted to militarize our borders, which I realize now might have been seen by some as the most 'extreme' position offered in the choices on that poll. However, especially in this age of terrorism, that is what I believe. And, other voters I know who do not consider themselves conservative Republicans but are instead swing-voting Americans, agree that securing our borders should be taking a much higher position on the list of things to do in our country. As one person recently and sadly said to me: "What seems to have best protected us in recent decades is the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans being our neighbor east and west." So, I am very sympathetic to those who want to keep our borders secure.

Having said that, I think this entire discussion should be re-focused, as explained below.

I started thinking about a different focus because of this part of Gov Bush's response to this question about benefits:

[8]What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

The first paragraph above, has others have already pointed out, makes little sense in that (1) Non-English speaking applicants for a driving test are likely to fail, and as far as I know, road signs in FL are not in Spanish; (2) insurance is not something desired by this group of drivers due to cost; (3) insurance will not be available to this group of drivers due to high cost; and (4) if you are in an accident with such a driver, who is illegally working somewhere picking fruit for a living, your chances of recovering anything are nill, with or without this new bill from Gov Bush, due to #2 and #3 above.

That said, what are the benefits to the subject driver who might actually be able to get insurance? I don't see any, except maybe a somewhat the potential for a somewhat higher paying minimum wage type job in the transportation business, as others mentioned, delivering pizzas, etc.

And that brings me to what I think is the real issue here: the employers who are hiring these undocumented, illegal workers in this country.

Are these workers coming to FL to be tourists and pay hotel tx and enjoy our beachers? I think not. They are coming here to work.

So, if the individual worker is illegal, what about the employer hiring that individual? That employer is complicit in the act as well.

We are discussing these undocumented / illegal alien workers as if they hold some sort of magical key to the real "benefit" of this program that I can identify, which is in terms of law enforcement, and that benefit concerns a new database of these undocumented workers.

Should the individual worker be responsible for mounds of documents to enter a system providing little benefit for him or her?

Or, should the responsibility rest with the employer for at least beginning the process of providing that information into a database, since the employer, too, is part of the illegal act in allowing that non-tourist worker to be here?

Right now, in the academic world, the situation is somewhat analagous in that universities and colleges hosting international students must relay mounds of information about foreign students, into a new data base, which was never required before, nor existed before. The government did not say: "Hey, students, when you have a chance, go over to the student center and input all this info yourself." Instead, the government required the universities to do it, and in that same vein, I think the government should be requiring employers to do it, under much higher penalties of law against the employer.

(Yes, I know I may be flamed here.)

So, where does that leave us now? With a data base full of now "documented" illegal aliens - and that's it?

I think the subsequent "reforms" in this matter should go to the heart of this problem, which involves the method by which one obtains US citizenship, to help these people either move toward becoming citizens, or, sending them back home.

There are plenty of others who would like to come in thie place, and work while trying for citizenship in a specified time frame.

Maybe such reforms could thereby open the door, to all, but result in more actual citizens and less illegals, because every illegal would either be on their way to becoming a citizen, or, on their way home.

Also, as one poster mentioned, there are some very unfair situations right now involving illegals, and the one that comes to my mind all the time involves children. They are here, receiving their free public education through grade 12, but when they graduate high school and turn 18, suddenly they are up for deportation if they are not yet legal -- even if they have won a scholarship to an American college and demonstrated promise and lived most of their lives here. I don't understand why this situation exists, in that such a student could pass any English and history test for citizenship beginning probably at age 14. More emphasis on becoming citizens is needed for these kids who are on their way to making important contributions to our country.

OK, that's it. I am sure I said something here that sounds ridiculous to someone, so I will just call it a night.

Not amnesty, but attrition. First, start enforcing our border laws. Second, crack down on businesses hiring illegals so that it's as unpleasant as possible to live here illegally.

I was about to nod off here, but I think what you said here summarizes part of what I am trying to say, too.

If the USA right now said, "that's it, no more illegals in our country period," and the eligible illegals (those without criminal records and not from terrorist nations) already working here have "X" number of months to become legal or leave, the numbers would drop. Any illegal knowing he or she would be subjected to this data base upon working anywhere might think twice about wanting to come here, since now it would involve actually committing to becoming a citizen in X amount of time, or, be deported.

I heard on the radio once this interview with some undocumented workers who have been here for something like 19 years, and they said they have no interest whatsoever in GW's "guest worker" plan because of all the restrictions - same employer for 3 years, etc. They said they were planning on remaining illegal. Yet, they spoke English well, they have been here, and are working - why aren't people like that trying to become citizens?

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