[Bart Mann]

"It is nice that he "believes" this and all, but a competent neurophysiologist could tear him to pieces."

As in a partial birth abortion?

"The parts of the brain required for consciousness are developed post-natal, and the only part of the brain that is really even online in a fetus is the most low-level reptilian parts that are essential to running basic life support."

Reptilian? Uh, let let me guess. Abortion on demand, but fur is murder, right?

I will never understand how people can put aside all reason and logic and humanity to defend the murder of the unborn. I'll make it simple so you can understand. A baby is a baby is a baby.

"Articles like this make me cringe."

The truth hurts, when you live a life of lies.

[tortoise]

You don't actually refute anything I say, just go off on inane tangents. My point was that the "expert witness" provided by the article was factually wrong about relatively basic developmental neurophysiology. Higher brain function is a post-natal development; that this fact is true does not really change the abortion argument in any significant sense. But people who pretend like this is not a fact are simply idiots and therefore can be safely ignored. If you want to make a point and take a position, it helps the credibility of the argument if one does not come out of the gate making trivially falsifiable claims.

It is an indictment of a shoddy article, not a commentary on abortion.

[jwalsh07]

Age Post-menstrual (Post-conceptional)	Comment	Fetal sentience could occur	Reference
4.5 (2.5)	Development of spinal cord and brain begins		Kuljis (1994) [1]
6 (4)	Nerves start to grow, but no connections reported between them		Okado et al (1979) [2]
7 (5)	First observed synapses between neurones		Okado et al (1979) [3]
7 (5)	First fibres arrive in the cerebral vesicles. Start to form the primordial plexiform layer		Marin-Padilla et al (1982)[4]
7.5 (5.5)	Earliest reported fetal movements		De Vries et al (1982) [5] Humphrey (1964) [6]
8.5 (6.5)	Head, trunk and pelvis move away from a stimulus		De Vries et al (1982)[7]
9 (7)	Electrical activity detected in developing brain stem		Brokowski & Berstine[8] Bergstrom (1969) [9]
10 (8)	Development of higher brain begins		Marin-Padilla (1978) [10]
10 (8)	Synapse formation within the spine		Okado N (1980) [11]
10-11 (8-9)	Isolated fetal breathing movements		De Vries et al (1982) [12]
10-11 (8-9)	Initial development of the thalamus	McCullagh*	McCullagh [13]
11 (9)	Stimulation of hands causes partial finger closure		De Vries et al (1982) [14]
12.5 (10.5)	Stimulation of lips elicits reflex swallowing		De Vries et al [15]
13 (11)	Sensory receptors on hands, feet and face		Humphrey (1964) [16]
13 (11)	Glover believes this is probably the first date at which a fetus can have an awareness of pain	Glover	Glover oral submission [17]
16 (14)	Episodes of regular fetal breathing movements		De Vries et al (1982) [18]
20-22 (18-20)	Nerves connect between cortex and thalamus		Laroche (1981) [19]
20 (18)	Electrical activity recorded in the thalamus		Bergstrom (1969) [20]
22 (20)	Sensory receptors on all surfaces		Humphrey (1964) [21]
23 (21)	Mount hormonal stress response to needle placement for blood transfusions		Giannakoulopoulos [22]
26 (24)	Sensory input can reach cortex - therefore pain signals could reach the areas of consciousness	Fitzgerald	Report to DoH [23]
30 (28)	Myelination complete in pain pathways		Gilles et al (1993) [24]
Birth or later		Derbyshire	Derbyshire [25]