Marines Encircle Fallouja (Operation Valiant Resolve commencing)

LA Times ^ | 4-4-04 | Tony Perry and Edmund Sanders

[BurbankKarl]

FALLOUJA, Iraq — Thousands of Marines surrounded this anti-American stronghold early today in preparation for a complex raid to retake control of the city and apprehend those responsible for last week's slayings of four U.S. security contractors.

The highly anticipated action, dubbed Operation Valiant Resolve, was expected to be one of the biggest military offensives since the fall of Saddam Hussein's government a year ago.

All roads leading to this city of 300,000 were cut off and barricaded with tanks and concertina wire. Working through the cold and windy desert night, under a large moon, Marines set up camps for detainees and residents who might flee any fighting. Before dawn, several Marine positions were hit by mortar rounds and rocket-propelled grenade fire. Bursts of automatic gunfire could be heard throughout the city.

[mathluv]

I remembered that Greg was in Afghanistan right after I posted that. I don't think I have seen Steve report, but I am glad to know where he is.

[RobbyS]

It should be the beginnning of a permanent embargo of the city. No gasoline, nothing beyond food and medicine, none of the amenities of life.

[Barlowmaker]

No embargo will persuade a citizen with knowledge to step forward. No embargo will hamper the terrorist techniques of desperate killers.

An informant will only come forward when the benefit of that action outweighs the risk. In Mosul and Tikrit ... it was money that tipped the scale. Here, it is likely to be some local policeman, civil servant or businessman who are supporting the Baathists and terrorists, and decides to step forward and negotiate a plea in exchange for names, addresses and involvement.

You can't punish the populace who know nothing, you need to entice the individual who knows something.

[RobbyS]

No reason why you can't do both. As for the populace, we should have made it clear long ago that defiance has its price .

[VMI70]

Bump

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
George Santayana (1863 - 1952)

[Robert_Paulson2]

no way dude.
If we just treat them as if 99.98 percent of them are really good guys, and don't do anything that might result in collateral damage....

things will be JUST fine.
Everybody knows that limited warfare works!

[piasa]

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - U.S. troops in Iraq should be subject to international law once the occupation ends if Washington wants to win the confidence of the Iraqi people, the head of Amnesty International said on Monday.

Dear Amnesty International:

Kiss my mongrel #$$.

Sincerely, Piasa

P.S. May you losers find Hikmat Shakir's gonads hung up on your front door.

[truth_seeker]

"We didn't nuke Mecca or drag Arab Americans from their homes after 9/11."

We nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and dragged Jap Americans from their homes. And won that War, for keeps.

(And in the other theater we bombed Dresden and Berlin, innocent civilians, with the intention of ending the war, from the bottom up).

We are treating the war against islam(ic) extremism like a police case, one criminal and gang, at a time.

Point: In the end, it took a MASSIVE shock, to stop Jap fanaticism.

What is different, about this war?

Muslims worldover are making WAR. USA, Israel, Sudan, Spain, Turkey, Russia, India, Philippines, Indonesia.

They TARGET innocent civilians, yet their civilians escape with impunity.

I argue it won't end, until it becomes clear perhaps 10,000 of their own civilians will die, for each person they kill.

Why is this war not like others, whereby you beat the enemy down, until he surrenders? Islam(ic) extremism has not surrendered, yet.

Germany and Japan were eventually capable of self-governance. But they had to be rid of their "extremists."

Getting there took the deaths of many non-combatant ("peaceful") civilians, and national recognition of defeat.

I guess my argument is that it is not until the society feels the brutal costs of the war, and total defeat, will they willingly undertake becoming a re-newed society.

We frequently hear of "the Arab Nation" and the "muslim World." They are responsible for their own, for better and worse.

Perhaps we (and Spain) have become "too civilized" to inflict total defeat.

Spain's rational response to Madrid SHOULD have been sending tens of thousands MORE troops, to Iraq and Afghanistan. NATO's response to Istanbul and Madrid SHOULD have been sending hundreds of thousands of troops.

[hershey]

I wonder if we'll get reliable news reports while Fallujah's pacification is underway. Aren't some reporters embedded with marines? Even so, maybe they won't be allowed to make detailed reports until it's all over. Makes sense, but it's hard to listen to the RATS spew lies and innuendo 24/7. They're desperate. The only chance they have of winning is to undercut support for the war. That it's borderline treason and might well cost American soldiers' lives doesn't matter, I guess. The ends justify the means and all that.

[hershey]

I've lost faith in the Arab world's basic intelligence. Okay, they're pretty well brainwashed every time they go to the local mosque, but there are some intellectuals, some who've been to the west, who notice modern things like computers, TV, movies, planes, cell phones, etc..(Just remembered a post some time ago, where someone cited the number of books published in the Arab world, and newspapers compared to the west, even Israel. The number was ludicrously low.) That explains a great deal of the stuck-in-the-days-of-glory-past mentality. We need some kind of gas that pacifies the whole region, turns them into Mr. Rogers.

[hershey]

What about telling women and children to leave, and then giving the rest a chance to surrender or suffer the consequences. Notice the mullahs and other big shots don't do the dying. They get the dummies to blow themselves up.

[Jim Noble]

We are treating the war against islam(ic) extremism like a police case, one criminal and gang, at a time.

And for every one we get, there are ten replacements.

THAT'S the difference between war and what the police do.

And the answer, you are entirely correct, is to break the enemy. When they are broken, the death rate of their fighters fiinally exceeds the replacement rate, and then (eventually) they give up.

We are faced with legions of stupid young men, for whom the cost of picking up a gun does not now exceed the reward (in self-esteem, local renown, etc).

The job of our soldiers and marines is to make sure the cost-benefit equation favors leaving the gun alone.

The traditional way this is done is to kill everyone who picks up a gun for some time, until societal evolution kicks in.

We are not imposing a high enough price on the wannabes, and as a result we are going to get more of them.

[BurbankKarl]

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment take cover during a gun battle with the Iraqi insurgents outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq (news - web sites), Tuesday, April 6, 2004.

U.S. Marines with the 2nd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment take cover as a TV cameraman films during a gunbattle with Iraqi insurgents on the outskirts of Fallujah, Iraq, Tuesday, April 6, 2004. I bet the Arab press has some updates....the US press doesnt have any b*lls.

[BurbankKarl]

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - A man claiming to be a senior al-Qaida figure that the United States believes is operating in Iraq (news - web sites) has released a tape calling for the country's Sunni Muslims to fight Shiites and claiming responsibility for high-profile attacks there.

The 33-minute audiotape appeared Tuesday on a Web site known as a clearinghouse for militant Islamic messages. The speaker introduced himself as Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian also known as Ahmed al-Khalayleh who is thought to be a close associate of Osama bin Laden. It was the first tape of any kind attributed to him to be made public.


The tape's authenticity could not be verified. A U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity in Washington, said experts are looking into it, but it was too early to judge its authenticity.


Middle East counterterrorism officials said they also were examining the tape. One of the officials who spoke to the Associated Press in Amman, Jordan, said preliminary indications from people familiar with al-Zarqawi's voice and the tone of the threat suggest it is his.


Terrorism experts say that even when such statements cannot be traced to al-Qaida, they serve the group's cause by inspiring sympathizers.


Al-Zarqawi's whereabouts are unknown, but the Web site on which the tape appeared had a transcript heading that said al-Zarqawi was in Iraq.


The tape appeared hours before a Jordanian court convicted al-Zarqawi in absentia and sentenced him to death for the 2002 killing of a U.S. aid official in a terror conspiracy linked to al-Qaida. U.S. officials have offered a $10 million reward for his capture, saying he is trying to build an network of foreign militants in Iraq.


A statement circulating in Iraq and signed by anti-U.S. groups last month claimed al-Zarqawi was killed earlier by American bombs in northern Iraq. A senior U.S. official denied the report of al-Zarqawi's death.


The speaker on the tape claimed responsibility for a March 17 car bombing of a Baghdad hotel that killed seven people. The reference to the car bombing was an indication the tape was made recently.


The speaker also said that his group carried out the assassination of Ayatollah Mohammad Baqr al-Hakim, the leader of Iraq's largest Shiite party, the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. Al-Hakim was killed by a car bomb in Iraq on Aug. 29.


Al-Hakim's brother, Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, has said al-Qaida was behind that assassination to try to ignite sectarian conflict.


The speaker also threatened to kill Gen. John Abizaid, head of the Central Command; L. Paul Bremer, the top U.S. administrator in Iraq; and "their generals, soldiers and associates."


One theme of the tape echoed that of a letter U.S. authorities released earlier this year in which al-Zarqawi purportedly wrote to other al-Qaida leaders that the best way to undermine U.S. policy in Iraq was to turn the country's religious communities against each other.


Iraq's Shiite majority was suppressed under toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), who favored his own Sunni community. Saddam loyalists in heavily Sunni parts of the country and foreign fighters have been blamed for the bulk of attacks against U.S.-led forces in Iraq.


On the tape, the speaker said Shiite Iraqis were not true Muslims and were "the ears and the eyes of the Americans" in Iraq. He called upon Sunni Muslims in Iraq to "burn the earth under the occupiers' feet."

[mac_truck]

With patience and determination we will teach them that it is God's will that we kick their asses whenever they take up arms against us.

Amen brother!