Marines Encircle Fallouja (Operation Valiant Resolve commencing)

LA Times ^ | 4-4-04 | Tony Perry and Edmund Sanders

[BurbankKarl]

FALLOUJA, Iraq — Thousands of Marines surrounded this anti-American stronghold early today in preparation for a complex raid to retake control of the city and apprehend those responsible for last week's slayings of four U.S. security contractors.

The highly anticipated action, dubbed Operation Valiant Resolve, was expected to be one of the biggest military offensives since the fall of Saddam Hussein's government a year ago.

All roads leading to this city of 300,000 were cut off and barricaded with tanks and concertina wire. Working through the cold and windy desert night, under a large moon, Marines set up camps for detainees and residents who might flee any fighting. Before dawn, several Marine positions were hit by mortar rounds and rocket-propelled grenade fire. Bursts of automatic gunfire could be heard throughout the city.

[Woahhs]

They won't be up and at'em for another two hours.

[Robert_Paulson2]

PUT that round, right at the tip of my index finger... yess, allah be praised, delicious raisins!

[lavrenti]

I agree regarding types like that Mullah, however I think the delay could be because we don't want to rile the Shias, and because of the Iranian connections. I can understand to a certain degree there's a coin flip involved regarding him.

Want to see him go. He's becoming a major problem already in terms of a public face within Iraq, the Muslim world and over here. The last thing we need is the evil chaos of AQ and Iranian madness to find a safe harbor in such close quarters.

I was wondering about drone and satellite technology and the means to pinpoint more obscure targets (such as groups of individuals). Targeted missle attacks would sound like a viable option then, no?

If memory serves, the Marines have been training for this kind of urban combat since before Kosovo. Tin-foilers were thinking they were for domestic use, and others thought they were for a potential ground war (ha, ha--not with Clinton and Clark) in Yugoslavia. I think, therefore, there is an advantage in using ground forces in this situation, if my memory and assumptions are correct.

This I know I'll be getting some disagreements on--I support the idea of ground in this situation because the savage nature of the incidient begs for this kind of response. I support the idea of some creep walking out of morning prayers and be turned into a grease stain before he opens the door of his Mercedes, however I truly think we need to strike fear and respect in the hearts of the enemy.

I'm confident the Marines will do that. Again, I'm treading somewhat on the ground of emotions here.

[tubavil]

Think of Fallujah as Gaza.
=== === ===
Because of the parallel, and if things get messy in Fallujah, I expect Israel to move substantively in Gaza.

[Triple Word Score]

Thanks for the map. I hope you westcoasters can keep the flame going...I'm going to pray really hard for the troops and hit the hay. Here's hoping for happy news tomorrow.

Our troops are there to help them rebuild their country. They can damn well quit killing them, and the civilian contractors who are there to help, or we can give them a lesson in how conquerers CAN behave.

[Cap Huff]

RE: al-Douri

FWIW, about five or six months ago there was a rumor that al-Douri had leukemia. If true, he is now most likely dead. The fact that we've heard almost nothing about him since the beginning of the year leads me to speculate that he is probably dead. That's only conjecture. If he in fact is still alive I believe we will get him.

[Seniram US]

It would seem to me that the operation will be USMC only for now. And it is doubtful that the Marines will require the U.S. Army except for possible air cover. The Marines took Seoul after Inchon and that was a city. They will get the job done on their schedule.

[John Lenin]

That picture looks like it was a pose.

[olde north church]

I enjoy them, I have that photo of the Mayor of Saigon shooting that VC dude in the head as my screensaver. It makes me smile when things are done the right way.

[Robert_Paulson2]

They will be even more thrilled if we accidentally cause patently innocent civilian deaths

---

not to put too fine a point on it...
but if we FAIL to give them the photo essays they desire...
they will simply create them and then blame them on us.


a willing arab world, will of course, accept WHATEVER atrocity they see, as being an American one.

of course this would never happen, but if you DID nuke the town, the tv cameras wouldn't work above 4500 degrees or so.
instant news blackouts, and no mess to clean up...

so simple so clean.

[church16]

Well stated and good summary of the IDFs recent tactics. We've gotten some lessons from them, specifically with helos and drones. We have some capability to do what you talk about with fast movers (with targeting pods and laser guided bombs), but there's nothing surgical about a 500 or 2000 lb bomb (smaller stuff on the way soon), so all we have are hellfire and maverick missiles. The optics on the pods on the helos and drones are very good, but the latest stuff on the F16s is superior, too bad no smaller munitions unless they dig up some old Mavericks before we decommission them. Don't know how we'll get the good intel though. The IDF are the experts, but they haven't found a pristine solution (is there one?) to the urban warfare/spontaneous riot (yeah right) problem.

[TrueBeliever9]

Al Sistani is the heavyweight in that area and he's strongly in support of a secular government.

Sistani is not claiming to be the Mahdi and Sadr certainly is trying to claim that mantle. Do you know how tall Sadr is? I would like to know because the Mahdi is supposed to be tall, ride a white Arabian, be a Shiite and come out of Iraq.

[Getsmart64]

You're not going to hear that the marines have entered fallejuh and after a cpl of days that fallejuh is pacified....typical hammer and anvil attack...the north along the railroas is the anvil....move troops in from the south....section by section...utilizing artillery....and push them to the anvil...2-3 weeks at most...and then the city will have seen the wrath of god and be pacified...

[Woahhs]

The IDF are the experts, but they haven't found a pristine solution (is there one?) to the urban warfare/spontaneous riot (yeah right) problem.

You would think by now they would have developed an anti-press device of some sort. Now that would be worth the R&D.

[lavrenti]

I think there are differences between Fatah and a mixed bag of Baathist thugs and AQ adventurers, advantages that play well in an urban assault. The Fatah in Jenin were probably better trained to defend their environment--they're also better embedded in the population.

I don't think the bad guys in Fallujah are that close to the civilians. I also think the Baathists couldn't hit anything unless the target had its hands bound, was on their knees and two feet away from that piece of Chinese junk most of these clowns were likely issued. The AQ are trained for everything but defending a city.

I agree about boobytraps. AQ certianly proved they can do that.

[church16]

LOL!!! Now thats one I would like to see developed.

[MEG33]

They captured some of his family ..I haven't heard a word lately.

[McGavin999]

Just read a very disturbing article in the WP. Apparently Sadar just had a meeting with a bunch of other clerics. At the meeting were some Sunnis from Falluja.

We may be about to fight the real Iraqi War.

[BushMeister]

Thanks. I don't doubt the Marines' ability to reduce Fallujah, I just wondered if they had the assets in place to go it alone, except for air. I'm also glad the Marines have been using the Abrams, as well. Nice to have a few dozen of the M1A1s around, and they'll be even nicer if the recommendations on making them more suited for MOUT are followed.

BTW, I heard that the 5 1st INF soldiers killed the other day by an IED were riding in an M113. I thought these things were retired. Not sure if a Bradley would have made a difference, though.