Families Mourn 5 Soldiers Killed in Iraq

Atlanta Urinal-Constipation ^ | 04-03-04 | David Dishneau, Rebecca Boone and T.A. Badger

[TrueBeliever9]

A salute to all of them and prayers for their families.

[First_Salute]

Good work, getting this info; thanks.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you for continuing to tell the whole story.

Our leftist press/pols' exploitation of our grieving troops and families - pretending to care about the welfare of our troops after undermining our war efforts, aiding our enemies daily from day one - is as low as their seduction and use of Jane Roe to push abortion on America.

[PhilDragoo]

God, lift up these heroes fallen in doing Your work.

[First_Salute]

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2740620.php

Army Times article

March 17, 2004

Soldier dies as Bradley plunges into Tigris River

Associated Press

TIKRIT, Iraq — An Army Bradley fighting vehicle overturned Wednesday into the Tigris River in central Iraq, killing one 1st Infantry Division soldier and injuring two others, the military said.

The accident occurred shortly before midday near Al-Fatah, a village close to Beiji, 120 miles north of Baghdad, said Maj. Neal O’Brien, the division’s spokesman in the northern city of Tikrit.

O’Brien said the Bradley was skirting the Tigris River in a reconnaissance convoy with two other vehicles when the dirt road it was driving on gave way, causing the vehicle to roll on its side into the water.

It was unclear if the soldier drowned or suffered fatal injuries, O’Brien said.

The two injured soldiers were taken to a combat support hospital north of Tikrit. No details were available on their conditions.

The Army has not released the identities of the soldiers involved.

[First_Salute]

Airborne Combat Engineers - Vehicles

[Excerpts]

It comes down to understanding how
the human eye and brain work

...

New Zealand to replace M113s with LAVIIIs

The NZLAV is the New Zealand version of the Canadian LAVIII, produced by General Dynamics Land Systems of Canada (which bought GM Defense of Canada).

The NZ Army web pages devoted to the NZLAV provide 3 pages of Q&A and a photo gallery.

New Zealand plans to buy 105 LAVIIIs to replace 78 M113 APCs and 26 Scorpion fire support vehicles. The first NZLAV was received in August for acceptance testing to end in Nov '04. NZ says 105 LAVIIIs can do the work of 144 M113s.

This image shows the M113 and LAVIII side by side.

...

Aussies upgrade M113s

In a 500 million AU$ (about 385 million US$) program, 350 of the Austrailian Army's APCs (which date back to VN) will be upgraded, with a more powerful engine, extended capacity (for 259 of them), increased armor, and a new turret & gun.

...

Saturday, January 10, 2004

$1500 upgrade kits up-armor Humvees

Improvised armor kits are being assembled for four-passenger Humvees at FOB Ironhorse in Tikrit.

This sounds similar to a kit developed by Capt. Butler:

It's nothing like the much more expensive up-armoring contracted in the US, but it's better than nothing.

A number of up-armored Humvees have been transported to Iraq from the Balkans since November.

...

27 DEC 03 update on up-armored Humvees

Up-armored Humvees provide far superior protection from small-arms fire and mines/bombs than regular ones, as this example illustrates. This story shows getting hit in an armored Humvee is no picnic, but you are more likely to walk away.

At the end of 2003, the Army said it had 1,500 armored Humvees in Iraq, and more than 12,500 unarmored ones.

As reported here, the Army increased its order for armored Humvees ten-fold in August, from 235 to 2957.

Now, the pressure is on to get more on the road in Iraq sooner.

Both AM General and O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt of Fairfield, Ohio, which mounts the armor, are quickly shifting production and reconfiguring their factories to meet the demand. The AM General factory (which can make more than 50 different versions of the Humvee) now produces 30 vehicles a day, including about 10 of the M1114s, destined to be up-armored. Mac Nab said that by February the factory, which can turn out more than 50 Humvees a day and could go to overtime or double shifts if necessary, could be making "little else than M1114s."

As for O'Gara-Hess, it has taken significant steps to increase its armor-equipping production to 220 vehicles a month from 80 by early in 2004, said John H. Mayles, vice president for military programs at the aerospace and defense group of Armor Holdings, the parent company of O'Gara-Hess.

Meanwhile, units continue to install field-expedient armor kits.

Armored Humvees are certainly better than unarmored ones, and the faster we get them in service, the better. But, in my opinion, we be better off buying vehicles such as the DINGO (a vehicle made in New Orleans for the German Army at about $500K per), which are designed from the ground up to be armored.

Compare this image of the DINGO to this image of the up-armored Humvee and you'll see the difference in the undercarraige, where the DINGO has a slanted mine deflector design while the Humvee is flat on the bottom. Like one of the engineers who designed the Humveee up-armor said, there's only so much you can do to armor a vehicle not originally designed to be an armored vehicle.

To my knowledge, no 4WD armored vehicle is in the development pipeline for the US military. For the foreseeable future, when it comes to armored wheeled vehicles for transporting troops, its either the up-armored Humvee or a multi-wheeled vehicle like the Marine LAV or the new Styrker.

As we saw earlier today, no armored vehicle, even the Bradley, is road bomb proof.

...

Tuesday, December 23, 2003

First Stryker lost to enemy attack

Photo by Alan Lessig / Military Times staff - Published in Army Times

Soldiers on Saturday investigate the burned hulk of a Stryker destroyed by an improvised explosive device during an attack at Forward Operating Base Pacesetter. Guerilla forces ambushed a Stryker patrol near Samarra, destroying one vehicle — the first Stryker to be lost to hostile fire. The four-soldier crew escaped, but one soldier was injured in the attack.

As posted here Saturday (without a photo at the time), the driver suffered a broken right ankle and foot, and was flown to an Army hospital in Balad, according to The News Tribune of Tacoma, which has a reporter embedded with the brigade. Three other crew members escaped unharmed. Read the details here.

It appears the protective "fencing" around the outside has been removed for some reason. Here's an earlier photo from TribNet:

Here's how the vehicle looked in better days:

Here's some info on the Stryker if you are not familiar with it.

 

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[First_Salute]

Also at

Airborne Combat Engineers - Vehicles

The DINGO

Sunday, December 28, 2003

New Orleans firm building DINGOs

click for uncropped image
The DINGO the Germans are using in Kosovo and in Afghanistan:

In October, Textron Marine & Land Systems of New Orleans signed a license agreement with Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) of Munich to build the German Dingo armored vehicle, which many feel offers the best protection from mines and roadside bombs for its class of armored vehicle.

Like Humvees and the large Stryker armored personnel carriers, the German Dingos run on wheels rather than tracks.

Here are the vehicle's specifications.

The US, not having a true armored wheeled vehicle for patrols, is paying a armored limo company millions to armor-plate Humvees (see earlier post), with only limited effectiveness. An armored vehicle designed from the drawing boards to be an armored vehicle is superior to a retrofitted vehicle.

According to an Israeli source, the Israelis are considering attempting to purchase the German-made Dingo APC for its mechanized infantry units that operate exclusively in the West Bank and Gaza. You know the Israelis would not be considering this unless they really think highly of the vehicle. This would require an exception to German policy. The German manufacturer claims no knowledge of this interest.

KMW also builds an several armord vehicles, including an APC with 8 wheels like the Styrker.

----

Maybe we should be buying DINGOs instead of (or in addition to) beefing up Humvees. They cost 3 times as much, but might be worth it considering the better protection against road bombs and biochemicals (something we might yet run into somewhere). And they are only 1/4 the cost of Strykers, with about half the troop carrying capacity. Carrying the same number of troops in 2 vehicles reduces the risk for each soldier.

If we can buy XM-8 rifles produced by H-K in Columbus (GA), surely we can buy Dingos produced by KMW in New Orleans.

I'd hope we'd specify at least shield plates around that MG, though.

----

Incidentally, he Dannish in Kosovo are using a 6-wheeled APC which looks more air-transportable than the Stryker:

But, that's another story, for another post.

 

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Good post.

I had never seen Losses mean more armored Humvees. Thanks for finding it and sharing.

Such protection has made the $150,000 M1114 - an unarmored Humvee costs less than half that - the most sought-after ride in Iraq. While the exact number of deaths from attacks on unarmored vehicles is not known, estimates range from 30 to 60 of about 200 600 Americans killed since President Bush declared an end of major combat operations early in May.

Such statistics, along with a barrage of criticism from parents of dead soldiers and members of congressional delegations visiting Iraq, forced the Army in August to increase more than tenfold its orders for armored Humvees, to 2,957 from 235. It hopes to have 3,500 armored Humvees, including armored vehicles that are already in use in Iraq and Afghanistan, "just as soon as possible," an Army spokesman, Maj. Gary Tallman, said. Now, the Army says it has 1,500 armored Humvees in Iraq, and more than 12,500 unarmored ones.

A number of U.S. senators, like Jack Reed, D-R.I., who traveled to Iraq in July, have criticized the Army for not having enough armored vehicles. Reed's press secretary, Greg McCarthy, said, "The senator believes the administration failed to understand the mission. It didn't see the needs brought on by this hostile action."

I can't help but wonder what the Army had planned to buy with the money they were forced to spend on unprogrammed Up Armored Humvees. No doubt the Army will be criticized in years to come for not buying whatever it was.

[Squantos]

It ain't over .........far from it and to pretend otherwise will cost more lives. We either get in all the way or get out all the way. Half ass approach to the problem is dangerous to all politically, financially and physically. Our sons and daughters and their families deserve 100% of our support and regardless of the hand shaking , back slapping big mouth polidiots and presstitutes false promises that support to date is superfical and shallow and it isn't fair to those who go into harms way or their families left behind. Wade into that pool of crap and kick ass and bring em home. Let Iraq fix Iraq and if they screw it up and sponsor attacks on American interests again then we return and flush the new management.......again.

Stay safe !

[Cannoneer No. 4]

There are many alternatives to the M1114

[Cannoneer No. 4]

British Alvis Scarab

American-Canadian-Spanish General Dynamics Dragoon

American Textron M1117

British Alvis Simba

French Panhard VBL

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Wheeled armoured vehicles for military and internal security forces

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[Archangelsk]

This picture begs the question, where in the hell is this soldier's Kevlar helmet and why the hell isn't he wearing it?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I'm sure it is on that track someplace. He probably should have had his Combat Vehicle Crewman Helmet on. I wouldn't bust on him too bad. Your head gets mighty itchy wearing helmets all the time. If things are calm enough to be cleaning your main armament they are calm enough to take your headgear off.

[Tailback]

This page here http://www.uniteddefense.com/www.m113.com/ifvlcharac.html clearly states that there are armor upgrading packages that add addititional mine protection to the M113. This armor has been available for decades but the US Army has never bought any. Just like the pictures of the Rhodesian and South African vehicles from the 1960's and 1970's designed for mine protection that Archy has posted. The stuff has been available but the Army has failed to see the need to buy or develop any. I find your love of the humvee disturbing.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

04-April-2003 Sgt. Jean Avenia, 22, of Miami, Fla., a member of the 7th Cavalry’s 54th Engineer Battalion, cleans his .50 Cal. machine gun on his M113 armored vehicle in the suburbs of Baghdad.

That's the caption to the pic at Post 12

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I find your love of the humvee disturbing.

I think you may have me mixed up with somebody else. How do you figure I love humvees? I'm the one always looking for vehicles we could be using instead of M1114's.

Here are your pics of Rhodesian mine protected vehicles

[Ranger]

About 40% of post May casualties are from IEDs. Around 30% or so of total casualties appear to be in unarmored vehicles and if results of 04 remain consistent, its likely double that. The IEDs are becoming more effective.

As to Senator Reed, which you go out of your way to disparage because he is a Democrat and from Rhode Island; note that his career in the Army at multiple levels is distinguished. His interest in its wellbeing is beyond dispute. His national guard unit took 6 KIAs in one incident in unarmored humvees which alerted him to the issue early on in the conflict.

So Cannoneer, I'll let you get back to posting your infomercials.