O'Reilly to call for the leveling of Fallujah?

Foxnews ^ | March 31, 2004. | Bill O' Reilly

[ConservativeMan55]

Foxnews host Bill O'Reilly just previewed his show. "Problems continue for the U.S. Military in Fallujah. Why doesn't the U.S. Military just go ahead and level it?"

I have to say that I agree with Bill. Level the place.

[NittanyLion]

Remember how the war in the Pacific wasn't over until we broke the will of the Japanese? That took the instantaneous destruction of only two Japanese cities. Can you learn anything from this history lesson? Apparently not...

Do you adopt the simpleminded approach of applying the same remedy to every situation, regardless of how many variables have changed since the last one?

Apparently...

[Mudboy Slim]

"Remember how the war in the Pacific wasn't over until we broke the will of the Japanese?"

I sincerely disbelieve that we are talking about similar circumstances. To invade Japan wouldda required the sacrifice of tens of thousands of American soldiers' lives...we're already controlling Iraq, despite the unfortunate losses we continue to take. We are now in a weeding out process (as well as a battle for the hearts and minds of MidEasterners), and not one that would be best addressed by carpet-bombing an entire town.

FReegards...MUD

[DollyCali]

Hey Nully.. is the city still standing????

another thread with troll (as is here)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1109141/posts?page=74

[null and void]

Agreed, IF, and it's a big IF the war were only with Fallujah/Iraq.

Perhaps you have noticed the problem is a little bigger than that?

Qaddafi did, he wisely folded early, but many other wannabes are still very interested in playing.

Or hadn't you noticed?

[don-o]

As for the destruction of innocents, take a look back in history. An example that immediately comes to my mind is Dresden.

Oh, I see. Because war crimes have been committed in the past, we should advocate war crime as an ongoing strategy?

Peggy Noonan has it right; hunt down the ones who did this, kill them; them blow up the bridge.

Mass destruction of the city might satisfy the natural desire for revenge, but ultimately would make our mission more difficult.

[null and void]

Do you adopt the simpleminded approach of applying the same remedy to every situation, regardless of how many variables have changed since the last one?

No, I prefer using methods that have a track record of working, over your method of using "nice" methods that have a track record of making problems worse.

Continuing to use unsuccessful "nice" methods is a key earmark of liberalism. Are you a liberal, by any chance?

BBL, have to take care of a sick kid...

[Mudboy Slim]

"Qaddafi did [notice], he wisely folded early, but many other wannabes are still very interested in playing."

I totally agree that are actions in Iraq are being viewed by potential foes accross the globe, and that is why I believe America shouldn't give them a "Remember the Alamo" event on which to bolster support for future attacks. We are the GoodGuys in the War and although a lot of these totalitarian regimes use their State-controlled medias to fool their sheeple to the contrary, the facts are there for future generations to see for themselves. If we were to level a given town to set an example, I believe it would be counter-productive to our long-term interests.

FReegards...MUD

BTW...yer hubris in statements like "Perhaps you have noticed the problem is a little bigger than that?" and "Or hadn't you noticed?" is more than a bit off-putting and doesn't do much to further yer argument.

[fourfivesix]

we are not fighting japan, nazi, and we are not at war with Iraq. The insurgents who perpetrated this dastardly act would like nothing better than for us to level the town. they want to turn the general populace totally against us and we would greatly oblige them by leveling Fallujah. It's classic guerrilla strategy. Thankfully morons like you aren't in command in Iraq.

[fourfivesix]

"No, I prefer using methods that have a track record of working"
Yes, the Nazis demonstrated the effectiveness of these methods on a large scale. You seem to be an admirerer of fascism. Are you a fascist?

[DollyCali]

I don't know you - but I do know that Null and Void is no moron. He is intelligent, a patriot And he is a gentleman!

If you wish to remain at FR I recommend you remain civil - name calling of fellow Freepers is for juveniles -

[Mudboy Slim]

"Muslims"
(To be sung to the Rolling Stones' "Angie")

Muslims...my FRiends...
When will yer Jihad disappear?!
Arabs...my bro's...
Help tell them zealots, "NEVER HERE!!"
With good Allah in their souls...
Saudi money...EVIL goals!!
Please explain why them folks died!!
But Muslims...my FRiends...
'Twas fer FReedom them Sheeple died!!

Allah...is innocent...yeah...
Koran's Right...put HATE aside!!
Muslims...we'll still love ya...
Lord Allah ain't fer gen-o-cide!!
All Left's dreams they were so close...
But they all went up in smoke!!
Let me whisper in yer ear,
"Osama...bin Laden...YOU SHALL JOIN ALLAH THIS YEAR!!!"

(Haunting keyboard solo)

So...daughters, gently sleep...
Fer yer futures Right does FReep!!
Avenge bin Laden's shameless crimes!!
And my son...Jakob, ain't no way I'll say "Goodbye!"

'Cuz there's lovin' in our souls...
And there's Honor in our goals!!
Fer yer FReedom we shall fight!!
'Cuz Muslims...FReepers love ya, baby...
Everywhere Left looks, they'll fear our Might!!
We won't let Lib'rals git their claws in you...
C'mon FReepers, join our fight!!
Allah...Allah...ain't it good to be alive?!
Muslims...my FRiends...you can't say MUD never tried...

FReegards...MUD

[Publius6961]

By the way, what military experience does O'Reilly have, other than playing with lead soldiers in his pre-teens?

Reporting from several shooting wars and guerilla insurgencies world wide. Unarmed.

What does jackbill have that is useful to offer other than a big mouth?

[Publius6961]

but a thread like this simply lends credence to those who like to paint US as the Great Satan.

It might just do that, if we ever actually did something.
Now ask me how much I care about "credence" for the people who want to kill us.
For the intelligence-challenged, the ultimate enabler for exercizing military might is simply the ability to do it; for good or for evil. Anything else is sophistry.

[Publius6961]

Remind me again how destroying a city will hasten the advance of a free Iraq...

I thought everybody knew that. But in case you're serious...

Destroying a city at random is non-sensical. Destroying a city that has been known, for over a year, to be the source of mass murder against not only the "great satan" (that's us), but also fellow Iraqis that would be the constituents of a "Free" Iraq, would go a long way to enabling the reality of a free Iraq, everywhere else.

I guess you missed the part where this city became the concentration of Baathists and foreign mercenaries? You know, the hard core killing machine which has no interest in a free Iraq?

[Mudboy Slim]

"Now ask me how much I care about "credence" for the people who want to kill us."

I'm not the least bit against killing those who want to kill us before they get the chance to follow through on their dreams, but carpet-bombing an entire town is not the way to go about it. This War on Terrorism is as much a battle fer the Hearts and Minds as it is about controlling this this strategic outpost or that. To date, any argument that America is anything but the Great Liberator is pure sophistry, but if we start mass-murdering innocent civilians, we begin to lose the higher moral ground!!

"For the intelligence-challenged, the ultimate enabler for exercizing military might is simply the ability to do it; for good or for evil. Anything else is sophistry."

Ya lost me there, Publius, could you please clarify yer statement?!

FReegards...MUD

[Publius6961]

How many times have you been banned from FR triple-zero?

Enjoy your short stay. That syntax and technique sounds awfully familiar.

[Publius6961]

Ya lost me there, Publius, could you please clarify yer statement?!

Certainly. This goes back to the concept of "fear of world opinion".

If the enemy has the overwhelming force he will use it.
If we have it, we need neither permission nor approval.

You may not have noticed that we are getting the fallout for having used power indiscriminately for simply asserting that we have it and can actually use it?
Allowing the enemy to use fear of "world opinion" to prevent us from making it a reality makes no sense, does it?

[BlueLancer]

200 years from now, I want their children's children's children's children
to cower and cringe in fear whenever they hear the sounds of jet engines overhead
because their legends tell of fire from the sky.

I want them to hide in dark caves and holes in the earth,
shivering with terror whenever they hear the roar of diesel engines
because the tales of their ancestors talk about metal monsters
crawling over the earth, spitting death and destruction.

I want their mothers to be able to admonish them with
"If you don't behave, the Pale Destroyers will come for you",
and that will be enough to reduce them to quivering obesience.

I want the annihilation to be so complete that their mythology
will tell them of the day of judgment when the stern gods from across the sea
.. the powerful 'Mericans .. destroyed their forefathers' wickedness.

(Original created by BlueLancer ... 13 September 2001)
(Thanks to HiJinx for the accompanying pictures)<

[Mudboy Slim]

"...the concept of "fear of world opinion".

If the enemy has the overwhelming force he will use it.
If we have it, we need neither permission nor approval."

I'm not proposing that we make a Viet Nam-like mistake and handcuff our fighting forces unnecessarily, and I certainly supported Dubyuh's decision to forego UN approval of our actions to move into Iraq when we did. That said, I do believe that world opinion matters and maintaining our nobility in this War does matter in both the short- and long-term. Indiscriminantly bombing an entire town outta existence is not the path I think we want our military to take. Sure, Fallujah is a major problem and we need to address it using overwhelming force, but mass-murdering of innocent civilians harms our long-term interests, imho.

"You may not have noticed that we are getting the fallout for having used power indiscriminately for simply asserting that we have it and can actually use it? Allowing the enemy to use fear of "world opinion" to prevent us from making it a reality makes no sense, does it?"

Fallout from whom? Totalitarian regimes? Anti-War Leftists? If anybody is criticizing the Coalition's conduct in the Iraqi Liberation to date, they are full of $#!+!! Our conduct has been exemplary. However, if we were to mass-murder innocent civilians as we most certainly have the ability to do--and as FReepers are proposing on this thread--we will have forfeited the higher moral ground and will open us to attacks from American public opinion, which worries me a lot more than world opinion.

FReegards...MUD

[BlueLancer]

KING HENRY V, Act 3, Scene 3
King Henry: How yet resolves the governor of the town?
This is the latest parle we will admit;
Therefore to our best mercy give yourselves;
Or like to men proud of destruction
Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
If I begin the battery once again,
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie buried.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.
What is it then to me, if impious war,
Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats
bEnlink'd to waste and desolation?
What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil and villany.
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry
At Herod's bloody-hunting slaughtermen.
What say you? will you yield, and this avoid,
Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy'd?