U.S. to defend Muslim girl wearing scarf in school

CNN Washington Bureau ^ | 03/30/04 | Terry Frieden

[coffeebreak]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Justice Department announced Tuesday the government's civil rights lawyers have jumped into a legal case to support a Muslim girl's right to wear a head scarf in a public school.

Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Alex Acosta said government lawyers would support 11-year-old Nashala Hearn, a sixth-grade student who has sued the Muskogee, Oklahoma, Public School District for ordering her to remove her head scarf, or hijab, because it violated the dress code of the Benjamin Franklin Science Academy, which she attended.

The girl continued to wear her hijab to school and was subsequently suspended twice for doing so. The family appealed the suspensions, which were upheld by a district administrative hearing committee.

Her parents filed suit against the Muskogee School District last October.

On Tuesday the federal government filed a motion in a federal court in Muskogee to intervene in support of Nashala's position.

[E Rocc]

So you are of the seperation of church and state frame of mind? So you think that is what the 1st amendment means?

Jefferson and Madison both thought that and said so.

-Eric

[William Martel]

Islamic garbs (raghead/beards...) is something new.

It really is not all that new. I remember seeing them around before 9/11 too.

Be careful about letting your anger towards one group turn into hatred towards an entire population. I can sympathize with your sentiments, but I also know that this is the type of knee-jerk reaction that can bite us in the backside later on. We must be cautious about small things such as this personally. It gives our enemies fodder to label us as bigotted reactionaries, which in the end only hinders our cause.

[MississippiMan]

assimilate or get out.

Muslims don't do that.

MM

[Mamzelle]

Not gangs like you think I mean--but hijab functions as a marker in a community of numbers and influence. It's like the bandanas that the boys wear--"Hear we are." When the numbers are sufficient, it will be the males who are emboldened to take the power that the number of veils signify. This is what you see now in Brussels--

I'm sure the girls are studious. Muslims boys also like Western girls--they marry them regularly--but beware your sons showing interest in a Muslim girl. That can be dangerous.

[looscnnn]

Not so, Jefferson and Madison were against the establishment of a national church/religion. Not the elimination of God or religious symbols from public locations. Those symbols are common for many religions, so that means that the ten commandments would not be establishing a national religion or church.

Jefferson:
http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

Madison:
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/qmadison.htm

Madison's summary of the First Amendment:

"Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform" (Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).

[Mamzelle]

re: What you resist, persists, and intensifies." )))

Appeasement brings increasement--my own invention.

Turkey is the closest thing to a democritized Islamic state, and it still is not a place I would live. They forbid hijab in public schools and do not allow women who work (women do work in Turkey) in gov buildings to wear hijab while working.

They know well that the moment the women go veiled, that women will be *forced* to be veiled. Hoodlums in European neighborhoods assault women who are not veiled--if "critical mass" is reached in numbers of veiled women, it starts.

But, in the interest of cultural diversity, I think all schools should teach the Koran and some of the sayings of Mohammed--acutely boring, but highly enlightening. I've read them myself, and the more I read, the worse it got. One should particularly be aware that Mohammed said that when two verses of the Koran seem contradictory--take the latter verse. All the peaceful notions are in the front of the Koran.

They scare *me*--

[looscnnn]

Also other resources:

http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
"The letter was the subject of intense scrutiny by Jefferson, and he consulted a couple of New England politicians to assure that his words would not offend while still conveying his message: it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion."

"[Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] "

and

http://www.nrbookservice.com/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6442

[CobaltBlue]

I gather that your solution is to round up all Muslims, regardless of whether or not they are American citizens, and put them in internment camps. Is the Final Solution mass executions, or shall we just sterilize them so they can't reproduce, and keep them locked up until they die?

Or would you prefer forced conversions?

[hchutch]

Then again, there are some who think freedom of religion only applies to those who they deem "Judeo-Christian".

Some religions are more equal than others.

[jwalsh07]

My point is that they do: dress codes should only exist to maintain order and the forbidding of passive displays such as crosses, yamulkes (sic) and Islamic veils represents protected free exercise. Rather than pandering to the anti-Islamic bigotry of the ignorant that is clear from some of the other posts in this thread (not yours), I would think that Christian organizations would support this girl.

This Christian certainly will.

[Mamzelle]

Your remarks are inflammatory and foolish--perhaps you find the veil erotic? So many men *do*--it goes a long way in establishing dominance over uppity females.

How do YOU like inflammatory and insulting remarks?

I'd like to see immigration from nations producing a large share of terrorists halted. These nations: SA, Iran, Egypt, Palestine, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria...while immigrations from Turkey, Pakistan, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait be allowed but carefully vetted.

And the hijab should not be encouraged in public schools in the US. We'll pay a price for it.

[CobaltBlue]

If you'd bothered to look at my profile, you'd see my demographics, which have been there for a long time: "American woman. 50-ish. Married, lawyer, mother of two boys (18, 16)." No, I am not a lesbian, either, although I am a feminist, have been one all my life. Not a Muslim, either, I am Catholic, again, have been one all my life.

In fact, I am old enough to remember when people opposed the election of John F. Kennedy on the basis that he was Catholic. Where I come from - Deep South - there are plenty of Protestants who believe that Catholics are not "saved" and are going to hell, and that the Pope is the anti-Christ or maybe just the anti-Pope.

Is America going to hell in a handbasket because some Muslim women wear their hijab to school? Couldn't prove it by me, I've attended classes with Muslim women for years. Most of them are too bashful to even speak. If you make them choose between school and veils, they'll pick veils, and stay home.

Personally, I'd prefer that they get good educations and become professionals and work for women's rights in the Islamic world. You don't have to tell them how oppressive Muslim men are, they know that better than you do.

[E Rocc]

The hijab is a gang-marker, and schools have had some good successes in forbidding gang-wear like bandanas, insulting t-shirts, etc.

Naw, this is the latest gangsta fashion:

-Eric

[Mamzelle]

Thanks for sharing so much of yourself.

Point was--you made a ridiculous and inflammatory remark that equated fascistic oppression with the sensible discouragement of hijab in public schools.

While men seem to be the chief proponents of the allure of the veil, a lot of women are sold on it as well. Gives me the perfect horrors--I remember that woman in the blue blanket being shot on the soccer field--

We'd be better off without the veil on girls in public schools. It won't be easy to get rid of once the numbers increase.

[ARCADIA]

It is horrible, but true. I just don't think this is 1st Amendment issue, it's a beauty issue. And, should be treated as such.

[Kenton]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Well said, coffeebreak. I was trying to figure out how to say the same thing without getting into a flame war.

The main problem that mainstream religions in America (which face it, that means Christianity) face come from liberals who treat the "shall make no law respecting" (the "Separation of Church and State") clause as if it's the entire meaning of the First Amendment, and they show little respect for the "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" part.

That's why the word of God has become taboo in school. Because the school administrators claim "it's a separation of church and state thing".

This has little to do with policy, since the de facto policy seems to have been one of religious freedom (for people wearing crosses, anyway) and there's no compelling reason I can think of why they would change that policy because this kid is Muslim.

This is just a kid trying to practice their religion. Same as the kids who wear crosses.

And no, deep down inside, I don't want to see an "Islamization of America". But I don't want to forget about protecting the right of the individual to freely excercise their religion in public.

[cantfindagoodscreenname]

Governments are not supposed to be in the business of promoting religion NOR suppressing it.

I have never understood why the word "established" has come to mean "promoted" in legalese. I think that the definitions of those two words are worlds apart. Do you have any insight into this?

[CobaltBlue]

Establishment is an old term, meaning in this context a state religion, as Church of England used to be. Several of the colonies had state religions.

As for how the First Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights came to apply to the states, that's a long story. I took a poly sci course on this undergrad and it took an entire semester.

[Fedora]

So, Jews aren't covered by the Constitution? What country did you say you were from?

I said no such thing, and in fact said the opposite in several of my posts--see for instance Post #24. I see you're responding to my Post #12, so I infer you must've read that and assumed that I was applying my line of argument there to exclude Judaism. I wasn't. A tradition of religious toleration towards Judaism was well-established in the American Colonies by the time of the Revolution (see History of the Jews in the United States (Colonial Era-1906)).