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To: presidio9; Destro; wardaddy; sonofatpatcher2; cyborg; dirtboy; nuconvert; b4its2late
Just in case you are interested this is what happened to that dude back home who was bitten by the Puff Adder (and the same thing happened to a fireman in Dayton Ohio whose pet Gabon Viper, a relative of the Puff Adder, but him. He also died because of two mistakes. One: Having an exceedingly venomous snake that also happens to have the longest fangs of any venomous snake. Two: Having an extremely exotic snake that is only found in certain parts of Africa, and that has no anti-Venin in the whole of the USA. The guy died because of the combo of potent venom and lack of anti-venin. By the time they would have brought it from Africa the guy was sadly long gone. ).

Anyways, this is what happens when a person goes mano-a-mano with a Puff Adder.

Local Affects: Pain and swelling: onset almost immediately after bite Blistering, bleb formation Hemorrhagic edema Tissue necrosis: onset usually days after bite Ecchymosis

Cardiovascular: Severe Hypotension: onset immediately Cardiac arrythmias: Tachycardia Prolonged QT intervals Supraventricular tachycardia Inverted T waves Cardiac arrest

Hematological: Coagulation defects Spontaneous bleeding: Mucosal bleeding Hematemesis Epistasis Ecchymoses/petechiae Gastrointestinal bleeding Internal hemorrhage Hemolysis

Pulmonary Pulmonary edema Tachypnea Dyspnea

Renal/Urinary Hematuria Hemoglobinuria Myoglobinuria Renal failure

General: Nausea/Emesis Fever Abdominal pain Regional Lymphadenopathy

Then you die!

Fin!

By the way here is a post i placed on another thread some months ago. Basically i was just coming up with a fictional account of what might happen when some pimply-faced kid orders an exotic reptile, like a black mamba, from mail-order shops (like dragonFarms that was closed down due to some of the stuff they used to sell). Basically i was just writing a possible scenario ....and with black mambas it is really possible.

Here goes:

The thing is most people are so enwrapped with acquiring an exotic snake that they never think about getting some anti-venin. Furthermore it is much cheaper to buy a green mamba, boomslang, cape cobra (the most venomous cobra)or similar exotic snakes than it is to by polyvalent anti-venin ......meaning if you are bitten by one chances are you will be dead since your average US hospital may be able to get rattlesnake antivenin but what would they do about cape cobra serum? By the time they export it from S.Africa or Kenya (the 2 places where you can get supplies of such antivenin that you can be SURE will work and are not some scam) the person is already dead due to the potency of the venom.

By the way through companies like Dragon Farms one can purchase a lethal exotic for less than 300 dollars. And what do they do? Plug the poor snake in a fish-tank with some sand and dried grass in the corner, and feed it dead mice once a week.

Take Joe Schmo! He bought a mamba a month ago ....a nice adult mamba.....from one of the many internet sites that deal with exotic reptiles. He has been taking good care of the mamba, and taking all the necessary precautions. Actually it seems the snake 'trusts' him since it does not react as it did before when he would come near the cage. Thus tonight he decides instead of dropping the mouse through the snake-proof slip-box he will open the top of the tank just a wee-bit and put it in hiumself. After all the snake seems placid, and after a month it must 'know' him and 'tust' him since he feeds it and makes sure the tank is warm and cosy!

Now, Joe Schmo will open the top of the fishtank one day to feed the mamba .....just a crack .....but the mamba will be waiting for him. It will lunge forward and Joe will experience what is known as the 'kiss' (mamba fangs are such that it really does not need to open its mouth wide ....it almost seems like a kiss or a light brush). Joe would feel no pain as the mamba strikes at him repeatedly on his arm, chest, neck, and face as it rushes past him (and away from the cage). Chances are like most black mamba victims Joe might even think the snake didn't bite him because of the sheer speed and lack of pain associated with the incident (now, if a viper bit you you would know).

Joe will probably start sweating and he tries to put some distance between himself and the mamba (which by now has gone off to some dark corner or Joe's room) .....however the increased adrenalin and stress in Joe means his heart is pumping faster, and hence the prodigious amounts of venom the mamba injected into him are moving at a much faster rate! Joe feels slightly dizzy, and his peripheral vision starts to blur .....then his mouth becomes dry as his salivary glands stop working. But he thinks it is just fear.

At this point he gets out of the room, and locks it to ensure the mamba does not 'escape.' He then strips his clothing off and gives himself a thorough check all over to see if the snake bit him, or if the snake is still crawling up his back (the reason he thinks that is the neurotoxic venom has already started making him get delusional).

He starts panting ......hard!

Not because he is doing anythign strenous but because the neurotoxic venom is affecting his central nervous system, systematically shutting it down! His eyes are droopy, and when he tries to speak to his dear aunt Martha (another delusion) he discovers he speech is slurred and seems to come from afar. His lips are trembling and his hands shaking. He tries to call 9-11 but he cannot remember all the digits ............he falls to the floor as the room starts to whirl faster than a whirling dervish!

Breathing is much harder now .......Joe starts to panic ....making the venom take effect faster! He is suffocating as the venom paralyses the intercostal muscles that make his diaphragm work .......now he cannot breath!

In less than 30 minute Joe is dead es ........the same death as someone who drowned!

3 hours later his girlfriend comes home to find Joe Schmo lying on the floor, clutching at the small crucifix he always wore around his neck, and having scribbled something on a piece of paper that read; "Aunt Martha is a vampire" (delusions again). She calls 9-11 and 20 minutes later the apartment is awash with cops and paramedics ....but Joe is long dead ....he was dead hours before she got home.

They go to his bedroom, flick on the switch, and notice nothing but an empty fish-tank and the curtains flapping as the cold air streams in from a tiny gap in the window.

The next morning Joe's neighbor, let's call him Mr Doe, goes to his car cursing at the fact he spilt his morning coffee all over his shirt (and the fact his wife kept nagging him about an incident over at Joe's). He heads to his car, yells for his wife and 2 kids to hurry up or he will be late, and waits for them with unabated fury written upon his face! After yelling at them some more once they arive they all get inside the car, but it refuses to start! After a few more tries Mr Doe steps out, kicks the car (spraining his ankle in the process) and tells little Kevin to pull the lever that pops the hood. Mr Doe lifts the hood to find 9 feet of tensile-steel strength serpent rising up from the engine block ......under other circumstances MR Doe might have even called the serpent gorgeous because it sure looked majestic under the dawning sun. The beautiful beast rises up above Mr Doe's head, delivering 3 rapid strikes as it does so. Mrs Doe notices te movement and the animal part of her hind-brain instinctively senses something is amiss, and thus she shrieks!

The mamba, like all snakes, have no real ears .,....but they can detect vibration quite well! Hence the mamba moves fast, very fast ......raising itself to the hegith of an adult's chest off the ground ....towards the source of the vibration. The missus and her two kids find themselves cramped inside a honda civic with 9 feet of vicious malevolent terror as the mamba works its dark magic on them before rapidly escaping from the garage!

Sadly the Does never had a chance against the mamba they so rudely awaked from its slumber ....for you see, all the snake wanted was to find a warm place to spend the night, and the relatively warmed engine block had been perfect for the last 5 hours until Mr Doe had popped the hood open that morning!

Now, the mamba heads into the morning Michigan sun, through the Doe's backyard, across the pond (a swimming mamba is the most gorgeous thing), and into St. Mary's Preparatory School. School started 3 weeks ago and the whole yard is chock-full of screaming yelling youngsters! Pesky Bob notices the flowing snake (and mamba's do not move.....they seem to flow like viscous mercury) and shouts 'snake snake!'

A crowd of 20 kids rapidly surround the snake .....which slowly raises itself up a good 6 feet ....taller than any of the kids ....taller than any adult within a 900 foot radius! It doesn't hiss, only flickers its tongue once, almost as if its checking to see whether it has sufficient venom to do the job at hand.

That afternoon the local news and state news is reporting a weird incident at a Michigan catholic school where 25 kids for some reason all died of suffocation. Although authorities are not sure why they think it might be a ruptured gas line or an ammonia spill from a passing train since there is a railway track nearby and everyday trains carrying various types of chemical agents pass.

Unknown to them the female black mamba is in a small cove of trees, totally oblivious to everything as it prepares to lay its young. You see, when Joe Schmo bought the mamba through the internet last month he never knew it had been impregnated while in the mamba pen over at the place where he bought it. In a few days a clutch of 27 little mambas, each less than 2 inches long but still having enough venom to kill several adults, are wriggling around in the wood cove. There are many lizards and other small critters for them to feast on, and life is simple. Winter is still some months away hence they can grow to be robust enough to survive the cold once it comes.

The brood and their mom have just become the apex predators in that little par of michigan.

Now, the above story may seem a stretch ...but it is not! There are hundreds of dangerous exotics in the US, including dozens of black, green and Jameson's Mambas! People make mistakes, it just takes the right mistake at the wrong time with the wrong snake and a serious situation could be at hand. By the way, the mamba killing 20 kids is not just possible but it has happened.

Actually in South Africa there is a pretty little snake called the Skaapsketer. It is mildly venomous, very lithe and fast, and generally harmless. However 'Skaapsketer' is Afrikaan for 'sheep sticker' ....because the boers used to think the little snake was responsible for flocks of sheep being found dead every now and then. What was discovered is the sheep used to be killed by straying into the path of an angry mamba that proceeded to bite ten or so (and with mambas ten deaths rapidly get exaggerated to 50).

There is one case i know of where a mamba killed 3 cattle, and the herd's men came up with sticks and 9 of them and their dog were all bitten and killed.

Anyways one day some pimply-faced 16 year old kid with hair-palms will make a major faux pas with his 'pet' mamba (or krait, cobra, taipan, bushmaster etc etc etc) and his whole family shall regret it .....and any medic or cop who comes into that house not knowing exactly what happened.

33 posted on 03/22/2004 9:46:54 AM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: spetznaz
You're Really INTO This! What do you do for a living?

You ought to send this to Stephen King.
34 posted on 03/22/2004 9:58:41 AM PST by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( President Bush 3-20-04))
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To: spetznaz
Nice post. A baby mamba is going to be longer than 2 inches though, probably about 1 to 2 feet?
36 posted on 03/22/2004 10:21:14 AM PST by alnitak ("That kid's about as sharp as a pound of wet liver" - Foghorn Leghorn)
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To: spetznaz
Fascinating posts. I have a couple of questions.

What is the "shelf life" for a neuro-toxic anti-venom?

How is it stored? Temperature dependent? Special containers, ie vials or prefilled syringe? How is it administered? IV of IM?

Can it be self-administered?

Your scenario with all of those kids being bitten. Can they really do that? It seems like it would inject all of it's poison into a couple of victims at most.

I transported a patient to the hospital with several bites from some sort of hemotoxic snake. (don't remember what kind of snake and I wasn't about to let that live snake ride to the hospital with me). He was a professional snake handler.

I would have expected someone like him to carry his own anti-venom, but he didn't.

Anyway, lucky for snake bite victims in Houston, the Houston Zoo is directly across the street from the Medical Center.

The zoo had all the necessary expertise and anti-venoms.
39 posted on 03/22/2004 10:55:38 AM PST by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: spetznaz
read later BTTT
40 posted on 03/22/2004 11:22:01 AM PST by cyborg (Tafadhali nataka bia [pombe] baridi)
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To: spetznaz
I worked for a couple of years in the bush in northern Tanzania, very near Lake Victoria...we had LOTS of black mambas around...and puff adders and at least two types of cobras plus green mambas. The lads were always offing mambas, they were amazingly plentiful and used to make me nevous walking back to my hooch after dark. I always brought food so the camp dog would tag along...he was very weary of snakes and was a good alarm.

They give me the willies.
44 posted on 03/22/2004 12:13:49 PM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: spetznaz
1. I wrote a similar story about a coven of witches (actually Darwin-award winning teens) in high school. Yours is much better. (for some reason the teacher did not believe that this was enough of a horror story or that snakes could survive the winter by making use of steam vents and sweres.)

2. Black mamabas and Taipans make the recent exotic animals found in NYC seem almost benign. (2 Caymans, 1 Bengal Tiger {this one scared the police!}, 2 tarantulas, and some scorpions). Personally, I'll stick to dogs, cats, and hamsters.
48 posted on 03/22/2004 2:07:17 PM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: spetznaz; nuconvert
A very scary story, why not take it to Hollywood.

I heard that the probability of snake accidents is increased during weekend evenings. A six-pack and an urge to impress will have fatal results.
52 posted on 03/22/2004 2:34:29 PM PST by AdmSmith
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To: spetznaz; bourbon; vetvetdoug
Puff adders remind me of that Italian woman who settled into some ranch in western Kenya and whose son raised the snakes and died by one.

They made a movie about her a few years back.

Worst snake on this side of the pond is the Bushmaster in my opinion. They are aggressive and strike high (1/2 body length) as well. Also mixed hemo-neuro toxin I believe.

I worked an opal mine in Pedro Seguna, Piaui Brasil in 1985-86 when floods came and drove the coral snakes into high ground (town). Lots of folks were bitten and died usually at night going to pee or something...particularly children. We went all over South America trying to find enough anti-venom but to no avail. It was awful. Then the water receded and the snakes went back in the rock.

A big change from my Mississippi experience with cottonmouths, copperheads and rattlers.
73 posted on 03/22/2004 5:53:43 PM PST by wardaddy (A man better believe in something or he'll fall for anything.)
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To: spetznaz
I was on emergency at the University of Tennessee one night at 11pm in 1983 when I got a call from a Washington D.C. hospital. It seems some homeboys broke into the National Zoo and stole a Gaboon Viper. The homeboy put the viper in a gunny sack and slung it over his back while making his getaway. As you said, the Gaboon Viper has some really nice fangs and when the homey slung the viper a little too rough the viper bit him in the back. We had a Gaboon viper at the Knoxville Zoo and some antivenin. They flew a fighter jet from Va. to Knoxville and picked up the antivenin and got back to treat the homey. You can imagine the cost to treat this homey and the cost to the taxpayer for this little foray.

I don't like to be around green or black mambas because they are very irritable and a pain to care for in a zoo environment. The spitting cobras are also a pain in the butt to work with because one has to wear a welders' facemask or like item and it takes away one's peripheral vision and quickness that comes in handy when cleaning their terrarium.

74 posted on 03/22/2004 6:34:24 PM PST by vetvetdoug
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