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To: mrustow
By the early 20th century, Europeans tended to speak synonymously of "Europe," "Christianity," and "the West." But Christianity was born in the same place as Judaism - the Middle East. Christianity may have achieved its greatest political power in Europe, but its greatest religious passion had peaked long before it arrived on the Continent. By the mid-19th century, at the height of European power, Christianity was a decadent, empty shell. And the ideas associated with "the West" were already moving -- west.

That's a very condensed, "armchair" view of history. There's some truth in it, but a lot to object to. Had Christianity's religous passion really "peaked long before it arrived on the Continent?" That would have been news to generations of popes, clerics, theologians, reformers, and artists. Does a thousand years of Medieval religion count for nothing? By Stix's logic, America itself doesn't hold a candle to the Middle East of two millennia ago, so we can't be especially religious today.

Was Christianity really a "decadent, empty shell" by the mid-19th century? The situation might have looked that way to philosophers like Nietzsche, but for millions of the faithful it certainly wasn't the case. Even down to the mid-20th century, religion was quite strong, especially in Southern and Eastern Europe, but even in France and Germany.

Comparing European elites with ordinary Americans is an "apples and oranges" comparison. Ordinary Western Europeans today, do seem to be particularly irreligious, but that wasn't always the case; nor are American elites especially devout for something close to a century. The point of Nietzsche's judgement was that he saw through what many openly professed to the void he thought lay beneath, and his judgement on 21st century America wouldn't be so different from his condemnation of his own era of European History.

European Christianity certainly has been in decline and probably Europe itself, but Stix is too quick to assume that America is immune to Europe's problems. Contemporary political divisions do reflect deeper conflicts, but one can overstate the historical differences between Americans and Europeans.

21 posted on 03/21/2004 10:14:09 AM PST by x
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To: x
That's a very condensed, "armchair" view of history.

If he wrote an uncondensed, 200,000 word, "general's" version, would you hang around to read and comment on it? Well, you make some valid points (re Medieval European Christianity) and some invalid ones:

Even down to the mid-20th century, religion was quite strong, especially in Southern and Eastern Europe, but even in France and Germany.

Not in France and Germany, it wasn't. Even I know that much.

European Christianity certainly has been in decline and probably Europe itself, but Stix is too quick to assume that America is immune to Europe's problems.

"Since FDR, unfortunately, we have been moving toward the Old World, as the American people have acquiesced to creeping socialism, centralization, absolutism and anti-scientific thinking....

Thus should Americans study Europe's triumphs ... and its decline. For if we are not careful, in the not-so-distant future, Europe's fate will be our own."

Doesn't sound like an assumption of American immunity to me.

34 posted on 03/21/2004 11:24:05 AM PST by mrustow
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