I would say for sake of argument, that she is physically dead and spiritually alive. Ecclesiastes deals with that distinction and states that both the spiritually living and the spiritually dead share a common destiny that is an evil to both, that they must bodily die and after that can have nothing more to do EVER in the things that go on under the sun. Period. End of statement. If they can't have anything to do with what happens here on earth, that would include our mumblings and carrying on. They can't get involved. Which literally means you could talk to Mary till you literally fall over dead and the only thing you will have accomplished is to have spent that whole time sinning against God by trying to communicate with the dead. You literally will have sinned endlessly and gotten nowhere in the doing.
Just because she is no longer alive on this earth, does not mean she isn't still worshiping God.
Oh, I in no way disagree on this one. But it has nothing to do with what we have been discussing.
She is among the saints whose prayers are mentioned in Revelation 5:8.
Uhm, you'll need to point that one out and then remember too that we are talking about symbolism in a prophecy. Mary isn't mentioned there. Nor does the prophecy say that saints are either prayed to or that angels are. Remember, it says the angel is involved in this and scripture already has spoken to the idea of praying to angels - a major no no. Interpreting it therefor to say that the angels are being prayed to becomes blasphemy. If the angel is doing the same thing as the elders, then the elders are not being prayed to either. Rightly dividing scripture requires that an interpretation cannot cause God to lie or to contradict himself. That's rule number one. If it does so, it is either bad interpretation or a false prophecy. And we know it is neither.
I would say for sake of argument, that she is physically dead and spiritually alive. Ecclesiastes deals with that distinction and states that both the spiritually living and the spiritually dead share a common destiny that is an evil to both, that they must bodily die and after that can have nothing more to do EVER in the things that go on under the sun. Period. End of statement. If they can't have anything to do with what happens here on earth, that would include our mumblings and carrying on. They can't get involved. Which literally means you could talk to Mary till you literally fall over dead and the only thing you will have accomplished is to have spent that whole time sinning against God by trying to communicate with the dead. You literally will have sinned endlessly and gotten nowhere in the doing.
To use Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 as a text prohibiting prayers to the saints is fallacious exegesis, since Ecclesiastes 9 is not speaking to the question of prayers, but of the general destiny of all men, death.
This is especially significant since, in the Old Testament, the soul of anyone who died, whether believer or unbeliever, did not go to heaven, since no one was allowed in heaven, except for Elijah and possibly Enoch and Moses, until Christ rose from the dead. Thus, there was no one in heaven to whom anyone in the Old Testament could pray.
The souls of all who died in the Old Testament went to a place which in Hebrew is called Sheol, or in Greek is called hades, while their bodies went into graves. The souls of believers were in the section known as "Abraham's bosom":
"And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell." Luke 16:22 DR
awaiting Christ to visit them after the resurrection and take them to heaven:
"3:19 In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison:"
"3:20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. " 1 Peter 3:19-20 DR
and:
"4:8 Wherefore he saith: Ascending on high, he led captivity captive: he gave gifts to men."
"4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it, but because he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?" Ephesians 4:8-9 DR
Once they are taken to heaven, then, and only then, could they receive pray petitions to present to the Father.
That these souls now have conscious existence in heaven and are quite aware of the happenings on earth is verified by Rev. 6:9-10 DR:
"6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."
"6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (Holy and True), dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
which is speaking of events on the New Testament side of the cross, and thus opposite the view of Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 which says they do not know anything on earth but is on the Old Testament side of the cross.
Further, Ecclesiates 9:5-6 is not necessarily speaking about the knowledge of deceased souls in the place they were then residing (Sheol), but the fact that they no longer have any knowledge of what is taking place on earth, nor can they participate in anything done on earth. That is the context of the passage, as can be seen in verse 6's clause "they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun." The phrase "under the sun" refers to events on earth.
Moreover, an argument can be made that Ecclesiates 9:5-6 is speaking about the evil men of the earth, since Ecclesiastes 9:3b begins a new context which speaks about evil men, which is separate from Ecclesiastes 9:1-3a which speaks about both good and evil men. As such, evil men will certainly never be heard from again, nor will there ever be a chance that they can receive communication from anyone, since they are damned souls whose sins go with them.
Communication with the ***dead*** IS impossible, but know what dead means:
22:31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken by God, saying to you:
22:32 I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.
Matthew 22:31-32 DR