Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[ET(end tyranny)]

I've searched a larger portion of the Vatican web-site from 1997 and can't find the statement in question.

Since you've been digging around the Vatican website since 1997, can you tell me if they have the picture of the Pope kissing the Qu'ran on its website?  Out of curiosity, the Pope kisses the Bible, so when he kissed the Qu'ran, was he giving it legitimacy, putting it on equal footing with the Bible?  Thanks.

[broadsword]

I am just dissapointed that we can't have a reasonable debate. A couple of years ago, I was told by Havoc that (paraphrase) he could take me to task in a debate.

Ha! That'll be the day. The little trinity and prophets don't have a clue as to the first rules of debating. The way words morph and move and parse and adapt to desire for them make adult communication nearly impossible. Commonly defined words are the basis of human commnication, and these guys want words to keep changing to suit their purposes. They do the same thing with select out-of-context passages of sacred scripture. A Bible in the hands of these guys is like a fighter jet in the hands of a chimpanzee.

"He is a fool who subjects reason to desire."

That has always been one of my favorite sayings.

Peace.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Another point - do you maintain the ONLY meanings for "anti-" are contained in Strongs definition?

Strongs gives a couple of definitions. I think the meaning can be found there.

I see no reason to suggest that anti christ and anti pope would use different meanings of the word 'anti'.

Combined with the usage and context of 'anti' in regards to 'anti'popes, I think 'substitution' is a reasonalable meaning and usage of the word anti. ;)

[ET(end tyranny)]

I swear, this little trinity of heresy is the most surreal and diabolical thing I have ever encountered. Reading their posts is like looking at the grisly results of a terrible auto accident. You want to look away from the gore, but it is just so hideous and twisted that you can't. You stand there with mouth agape.

Carry on with your diatribe.

I can at least, emphatically state that I have NEVER KISSED THE QU'RAN!!

Perhaps calling Havoc 'Akbar' or whatever is misplaced. Perhaps it is really 'JP II Abdullah Akbar'. After all, he DID KISS THE QU'RAN.

[Fury]

Since you've been digging around the Vatican website since 1997, can you tell me if they have the picture of the Pope kissing the Qu'ran on its website? Out of curiosity, the Pope kisses the Bible, so when he kissed the Qu'ran, was he giving it legitimacy, putting it on equal footing with the Bible? Thanks.

I should clarify. I was searching the last few days on the site from the 1997 archives, as those are the dates mentioned by Havoc.

As to that picture, do you have a date, who the other person is, etc - that information is really helpful. If we assume it is a Koran, I don't like it. The Pope could indeed be falliable in *personal* pronoucenments and statements. But then of course, the Pope did not mandate that Catholics must kiss the Koran.

[broadsword]

I see no reason to suggest that...

And because YOU see no reason we are to assume there IS no reason? No. We will not buy into that cute little irrationality.

We are sorry that you see no reason.

We are sad for you that reason is not something you can see.

We are appalled that you haven't the ability.

But we cannot help you. Nobody but an exorcist can.

You have shown by your posts that you have subjected your god-given reason to your hate-filled desires (to the point of its ruin), and therefore, are unworthy of rising to an adult debate. When the darkness of your heart overwhelmed your brain, you lost all ability in that regard. There is nothing left, but to pity you.

[Fury]

Strongs gives a couple of definitions. I think the meaning can be found there.

I see no reason to suggest that anti christ and anti pope would use different meanings of the word 'anti'.

Combined with the usage and context of 'anti' in regards to 'anti'popes, I think 'substitution' is a reasonalable meaning and usage of the word anti. ;)

Well, we will disagree. We can certainly agree on two things. An english dictionary does not list "substitution" as a reasonable meaning of the prefix "anti-" Strongs does, along with other meanings. Oh, and lastly, Vicarius can mean much more that substitute. But again it's context.

I believe Strongs is for use in regards to Scripture, and indeed that is one of its' selling points.

[SoothingDave]

I see no reason to suggest that anti christ and anti pope would use different meanings of the word 'anti'.

The Bible is not a dictionary. Words mean what they mean, regadless of whether or not certian prefixes are used in the Bible.

Combined with the usage and context of 'anti' in regards to 'anti'popes, I think 'substitution' is a reasonalable meaning and usage of the word anti.

Actually, there is a certain method to your madness. An antipope certainly is a false substitue for a real pope, in the hearts and minds of his followers. Just like an antichrist is a substitute for the real Christ in the hearts and minds of his followers.

But the primary meaning of "anti" is in showing opposition, not in showing substitution.

And finally, you fail to understand the difference between being someone's vicar and being someone's "anti." The Vicar of Christ is a delegate, an officeholder, who awaits the return of the Christ. Just like a substitute teacher fills in for the true teacher, or like a proxy votes in your interests in your absence.

The anti christ or an anti pope has no intention of ceding his office upon the return of the true Christ.

SD

[Fury]

Please retract Post 1308 - it makes too much sense... ;)

[Havoc]

They really don't like that picture. lol

[Petronski]

They really don't like that picture. lol

What did you expect? A defense of it?

[Havoc]

No, I've heard the defense of it.. it isn't much better than the picture. But I remember when it was posted on the CC threads. There was a heap of denial goin round that day.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Well, we will disagree. We can certainly agree on two things. An english dictionary does not list "substitution" as a reasonable meaning of the prefix "anti-"

I disagree. But, you should have know that I would.

An english dictionary does not list "substitution" as a reasonable meaning of the prefix "anti-

anti

\An"ti\ [Gr. ? against. See Ante.] A prefix meaning against, opposite or opposed to, contrary, or in place of; -- used in composition in many English words. It is often shortened to ant-; as, antacid, antarctic.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

When something is used 'in place of'.... it is substituted!

Yes, there are other alternatives. I'm just pointing out that just because YOU do not like what it may mean, doesn't mean it HAS to be ignored.

[Fury]

Yes, there are other alternatives. I'm just pointing out that just because YOU do not like what it may mean, doesn't mean it HAS to be ignored.

I neither like, nor dislike what it may mean. I'm arguing from the facts at hand. I certainly am not proposing it has to, as in MUST be ignored.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"They really don't like that picture. lol"

So what? I ask. SO WHAT?!?

Faithful Catholics follow the dogmatic pronouncements of the Pope when he speaks dogmatically on matters of FAITH and MORALS. That is the area where he is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Faithful Catholics accept his pronouncements on matters of Church discipline. He is the head of the Church.

That does NOT mean faithful Catholics have to like everything that he says or does. Outside of the above, he is a fallible man. He is, IMHO, an exceptionally holy man, generous, loving, etc., so he gets the benefit of the doubt as a well-meaning person.

The Holy Spirit does not have to intervene in photo-ops. ;)

[broadsword]

The Pope also visited in prison, forgave and prayed with/for the unrepentent Muslim man who shot him, even though confession is not done that way. The Little Trinity(TM) could screech that the Church is therefore inconsistent about the sacrament, except that I just blew their cover for that one.

Oops! Sorry guys.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"though confession is not done that way"

the assassin-to-be probably didn't know how to make a proper confession, anyway! ;)

BTW, this brings up another reason to admire, respect, and thank God for this Pope: the downfall of godless, athiest Communision in Europe . . . Reagan and the Pope, both maligned, but they had what it took at that moment in history . . .

He credited Our Lady of Fatima with her aid/intercession in preserving his life. That brought him even more respect from traditional, pious Catholics.

[Havoc]

He might as well kiss the necronomicon. You guys just don't get it. Christianity is about SPIRITUAL warfare - not physical. And spiritual don't mean a battle of philosophies. That's why that picture rubs so many of you raw. But it's all about worldly Ecumenism isn't it - where you wrap your arms around pagan religions and sing campfire songs for world peace.. It's prophetic; but, it isn't Christian..

[broadsword]

Yes. The great trio that brought down communism in Europe is JPII, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. And all so vilified by the leftist American media for it.

[broadsword]

He might as well kiss the necronomicon.

Well, you actually got something right! (You should SEE my belly button right now!)

The Pope, holy and prayerful man that he is, is far too soft-hearted to his enemies, in my non-ordained, non-consecrated, undoctored and humble opinion. He just keeps turning the other cheek where I would get fed up and chop off a head or two. But then, I am not the Pope and do not have his special guidance of the Holy Spirit.

We will likely soon see what the next Vicar of Christ who occupies the Chair of Peter and wields the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven will be like.