Mark Steyn: The Spanish dishonoured their dead

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 03/16/04 | Mark Steyn

[SquirrelKing]

Oh, put a baguette in it, will you?

NO, Mark! They might like it.

[GOPJ]

BINGO:

There are strong horses and weak horses, but right now western Europe is looking like a dead horse.

[Reagan Man]

The United States may have the support from many governments throughout the world in the war on terrorism, but there are few "citizenries" of those nations that actually stand with their leaders and at the side of America. Aside from Great Britain, where the people's support shifts from a small majority to a plurality, the US is fighting the WoT without the moral support of the free world.

It's a shame, but that's what the Bush administration has been facing for the better part of the last 2-1/2 years. The Euro-socialists have no intention of making anymore waves that might bring the wrath of the terrorists down on their heads.

[hang 'em]

My nomination for quote of the day:

"The entire country of Spain is now an OJ Jury."

50 posted on 03/15/2004 5:00:03 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue

[Scenic Sounds]

No one is saying that, physically, we are in more danger. But on a psychological level the terrorists have gotten a boost. Seeing that they have been able to influence an election, what might they be emboldened to do? Having made one of our allies fall away, might they target more?

If the left remains noisy and our elections look close, might they take a shot?

I don't think that any ifs need to be considered. I think that Al-Qaeda will wreak upon the United States and Europe as much havoc as it can as often as it can whether or not our elections look close and whether we are noisy or quiet. I don't expect any restraint on the part of Osama Bin Laden or Al-Qaeda at any time. They really are out to destroy us.

This Spanish election, while disappointing, should not be read as a Spanish endorsement of terrorism and does not mean that the Spanish people are opposed to fighting terrorism. Both of the major parties are publicly committed to fighting terrorism. (BTW, and this might surprise some people, both candidates also called for tax cuts ;-)) The two candidates did disagree about Spain's participation in the War in Iraq. The policy of the People's Party to send troops to Iraq has always been very unpopular in Spain. As a result of this election, that policy may change in June and Spain might withdraw its 1,300 troops from Iraq.

And, again, while that is mildly disappointing, I am confident that it will not affect the outcome of either the War on Terrorism or the War in Iraq. I don't know if Osama Bin Laden (or those who share his cave in Afghanistan) got an emotional boost out of the Spanish bombings or whether he even had anything to do with them, but I do know that he and his Al-Qaeda cronies are doomed - no matter how any election might go. That bunch crossed their Rubicon and sealed their fate on 9-11.

[rightwingcrazy]

Interesting. I'll have to do some history homework.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[knighthawk]

Ping

[Rocky]

I watched a nature show once where they showed some rats in a large cage with a poisonous snake (a mamba, I think). The rats were oblivious to the snake. They wandered around the cage as though they were perfectly safe. And they were. Until the snake got hungry. Then it picked one of the rats, and struck. The rat was dead in seconds. The other rats went on about their business.

[Neophyte]

Sorry for the delay in answering this really hard question. Nowadays I would define the difference between politically "right" and "left" in terms of the level of desirable and permissible interference of the state into citizens' everyday life.

[Neophyte]

I take rather the opposite position.

How about your position now, when in Kosovo the Mohammedan Albanians protected by the NATO and USA killed more then 20 Christian Serbs? They were ignited by an altercation among kids in the street which allegedly left some of them with bloodied noses...

[blanknoone]

Killing innocents is wrong...no matter who does it.

I don't believe that we have to eliminate all Muslims...just those that are fanatical. Ultimately, I think the decisive battle in the war on terror is for the so called 'moderate' Muslims. When the moderate Muslims turn on the radicals and destroy them as an affront to their religion...in essence an Islamic reformation. That is the only victory possible...until then, the struggle goes on.

[Neophyte]

I don't believe that we have to eliminate all Muslims...just those that are fanatical.

If the anti-Hitlerist allies back in WWII have said "It's only the storm-troopers who are really bad guys, just common, moderate Nazis are OK, let's wait them to overturn Hitler" it would be equal to what you're saying today.

The plague must be uprooted. The means to that end is the most painful, distressing, dividing question, but to save our civilisation, it's achievements, it's future - this question must be answered.

[blanknoone]

If the anti-Hitlerist allies back in WWII have said "It's only the storm-troopers who are really bad guys, just common, moderate Nazis are OK, let's wait them to overturn Hitler" it would be equal to what you're saying today.

The proper way to make that analogy is to say, All Germans need to be eliminated, not just the Nazis. Which puts you on par with the Nazis, not the liberators.

I never said that we have to wait for them to do it themselves. Indeed, we have a vital role in causing that confrontation between Islamists and moderate Muslims. But to complete your analogy, we had to militarily lay the groundwork for the de-nazification of Germany by defeating them in battle. But the German people had to accept and ultimately enforce the de-nazification...a task they still do today.

[Neophyte]

The proper way to make that analogy is to say, All Germans need to be eliminated, not just the Nazis.

No, it is not.

Islam is an ideology, as Nazism was. So these two are comparable.

On the other hand, Germans are and were a nation, an ethnicity, so any analogy between them and Mohammedans is the same communist trick which Tito had invented for Bosnia: there were three ethnic groups there - Serbs, Croats and... Muslims.

What a crap!

[blanknoone]

Islam is a religion, not an ideology. Subtle difference.

There are horrible acts, including terrorism, conducted in the name of Christianity, (KKK for example) do you also advocate killing all Christians? Do you think Salman Rushdie, who has a fatwa issued for his death, should be killed because he is Muslim? Do you think the Iranian youth fighting for their freedom on the streets of Iran should be killed because they are Muslims?

You need to draw a distinction between Islamists (Radicals) and more moderate Muslims. Moderate Muslims need to do more to fight the radicals in their midst...but they are not individually culpable for the misdeeds of others. To say that they are individually responsible for the actions of other members of whatever group they belong to is the essence of racism. (even the group may not be defined by race)

[Neophyte]

Islam is a religion

Come on, you can't be serious. What kind of religion is that?! A heaten death cult, that's all.

Anyway, I agree with you that not every Mohammedan is personally culpable for the deeds of, say, Sheik Yassin. OK, let's not kill them all, I'm ready to grant them this.

Just as much as possible will do.