Saudi Sermon: Time for Christians and Jews to Convert to Islam

IMRA ^ | March 14, 2004 | FBIS

[Lady Heron]

"There are endless mohammedan clerics issuing fatwahs in favor of killing Christians, Jews and anyone else

"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

"Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)

Koran-(5:51): O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Koran-(9:5): “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ; but if they repent (accept Islam) and establish regular prayers and practices regular charity then open the way for them; for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”

Koran-(8:65): “ O Apostle ! Rouse the believers to the fight, if there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering , they will vanquish two hundred; if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers; for these are a people without understanding.”

Koran-2:216: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

Koran-(2:191): “And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out………such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

Koran-(9:29): “Fight those who believe not the Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth even if they are the people of the book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Koran(48:20): “….Allah promises you much booty (spoils of war) that you will capture from the defeated infidels….”

Koran-8:38 “And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression”

Koran-8: 15,16: O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

Koran -9:111: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an

Koran-9:123: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

Koran-4:95: O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom? You should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you, if ye did but know. ... Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).

Koran- [9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

I guess it does not take a fatwah after all it is all there in the basic teachings of the koran! So you are either not a very good student or you lie. I guess time will tell.

Poor followers of islam the West can read.

[Lady Heron]

The wise know their enemy.

[Old Student]

The wise also know better than to make enemies of those who aren't actually enemies. You don't. This causes me to conclude that you lack wisdom.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

I'd suggest you try it.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I have a bunch of friends who are Sieks and they agree with you....

I take their opinions of the,religions differences between Christianity and Islam , over some American who has NO real experience, any day of the week.

People can quote scripture until the cows come home.. the real point is,what do the people say who are involved in the reality of the situation?

Now there is someone with a valid point.

Americans do not understand the real Islam...talk to someone who has lived with,and escaped from these people and ask them about it... they won't tell you Islam is a religion of peace.

There is a difference between reading a book about the world and living in it.

[Lady Heron]

The wise also know better than to make enemies of those who aren't actually enemies. You don't. This causes me to conclude that you lack wisdom.

LOL! Look at the polls on those muslims you trust so much. They support terrorism poll after poll after poll, because they know that those fighting jihad are better at keeping the faith than they are. I will take my studies over your supposed wisdom any day. I will follow all of the news reports daily around the world of muslims killing Christians, Jews and any other non-muslim like Hindus and I will stay free. I will know my enemy, I know why they kill everywhere! Stick your head in the sand or is it you have joined the dark side? You seem to leave that unanswered. I guess we can figure that one out for ourselves.

[Old Student]

You believe in polls and news media? You have my deepest sympathy. Believe what you like. You have that privilege, as an American. That doesn't make it the correct thing to believe. There are over a billion Muslims. There are not nearly that many of them who support terrorism. On the other hand, your mind is already made up, so I won't bother trying to confuse you with the facts.

[Old Student]

Madam, Jim Robinson told you and I to stay out of it. You don't believe in following instructions, do you? You just called me a liar. Jim, I'd be happy to provide any documentation you need or want of my service. I suspect that if I look around, I can find my Air Force Commendation Medal Citation, which describes my service in Desert Shield and Desert Storm. Or you can just ban me for telling this witch she does't have a clue about what she is talking about. I've had about enough of her mouth and keyboard.

[Lady Heron]

What a sorry response. LOL!

[Lady Heron]

BTW, you still did not answer the question but by your answers I guess we can figure it out. Nor did you refute my facts from the koran nor from muslim polls around the world and America. Sad just sad. Can't refute facts so you must go for those character attacks..LOL and prove you lost the argument. Typical of the response muslim usually give when they are posting false info about islam here on this board and are confronted with the words of their koran they can not put in a good light. Waste of my time not even up to the challenge. LOL

BTW on top of having studied the religion I have several lapsed muslim friends who are out of the clutches of their families and they know what they are talking about when it comes to islam.

We are done.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Islam does cause a quandary doesn't it. On one hand I want to support religious freedom, even if I disagree with it 100%.

On the other hand, these people believe in order to follow their religion they must enslave women and kill people.

I grew up near Dearborn Michigan, and there is a large population of Iranian and Iraqi people who are escapees from their countries.

Barring some minor cultural differences, they were easy to get along with. They were very decent people and freedom loving people.

They were running from the "religion of peace" as much as anything else.

I always felt bad for the ones who wanted to go home to their countires, but knew they would be killed if they tried.

I can not imagine not being able to go home.

[Old Student]

My apologies, but I wasn't aware that you actually asked a question. It appears to me that you made a statement, or more properly a series of statements. I did not call you a liar on them, because I recognize that some of what you said is, in fact, true. There are parts of the Koran that call for the killing of infidels. You, however, are mistaken in considering that a call to kill Christians and Jews, who are are called "People of the Book." Infidels are actual pagans, like the Hindus, Zoroastrians, all the sub-Saharan African religions, Druids, our American Indians, etc. There are, likewise, parts of the Koran where Mohammed (or Allah, through him, if you buy their authenticity) tells his people not to trust or ally with the other people of the Book, as he was very disappointed in them. There are parts of the Bible where God supposedly set bears to tear children limb from limb for making fun of his prophet. Isaiah, and I'll leave looking that up to you. I've had it explained to me that "children" in that context meant a bunch of know-it-all teenagers, and I could understand that, but the book says children.

As for my not spending a great deal of time on you, I've been visiting my wife in the hospital, and don't have the time to spend doing serious research. As far as my response to another poster, I've dealt with her before, and she was told to leave me alone, and I her, and I've been avoiding posting on threads where she posts. Her 2 cents in this thread is a direct violation of Jim Robinson's instructions to both of us. You call me a liar, and I'll respond to you rather more strongly, as well.

You may believe I'm mistaken, but I'm quite sincere in my mistakes, if so. You are studying Islam. I'd suggest you do so a little more thoroughly. Go to Turkey, and visit some of the sites there. The Turbe of the Mevlana, in Konya, for instance. When I was there in the mid-80's, a whole bus-load of Americans walked thorough the museum there, and did not take a single photograph because the place felt holy to us all. I was not a Christian then, but even I recognized it. It was, in fact, one of the reasons I investigated Islam. It was not, however, holy enough, so I did not become a Muslim.

As for character attacks, I haven't made any on you. Called you wrongheaded, more or less, yes, mistaken, yes, indeed. I've also tried to help you understand that not ALL Muslims are the problem, just some of them. You still don't seem to get that. I've no problem at all with killing the ones who are the problem, either. Your foolish identification of all Muslims as the problem is, however, a serious problem, itself. If you want to have to kill all 1 billion or so of them, you are just plain nuts. There aren't enough of us to do it, unless we start using nukes indiscriminately, and that would get US destroyed. Every other country in the world (except possibly Israel) would turn on us. That might well be what the Book of Revelation is about, and it may happen anyway, but to invite it through sheer stupidity is not the answer.

As far as your "facts" from Muslim polls, where were the polls taken? Palestine? Saudi Arabia? I have already agreed with you that the Saudis are high on my list of bad examples of Muslims. The Palestinians aren't much better, but at least they have something resembling a reason for their insanity. Did any of your polls get taken in Turkey? How about Turkmenistan? Kazakhstan? Georgia? Albania? Where? Substantial portions of all those countries and many others are Muslim. I may not have mentioned to you, but to another poster, that much of the "missionary" work performed by Muslims is funded by the Saudis. Even here in the US. They are hard-line Wahhabis. You seem to think that Islam is a monolithic religion, as well as monotheistic. The Wahhabi sect was founded in the late 17th century. It's only a century or so older than America. You could think of it as the Muslim equivilent of our Puritans. IF you want to discuss our differences, I'd be happy to. You may have info I don't have, and I'm SURE I have info you don't. Maligning my character is not conducive to discussion, however, and I've tried not to malign yours. I think you are sadly, badly, mistaken, but at least I take it for an honest opinion. The witch I referred to, I called that because her actions towards me have led me to believe that is just exactly what she is. If Jim wants to ban me because I won't tolerate any more crap from her, that is his privilege, as it's his site.

[ovrtaxt]

Hey, a quick update for you--(I've been reading your posts on this thread.) Apparently, the Chinese have been ripping DVDs of the Passion and distributing it worldwide in their typical smuggler type fashion. They are selling like hotcakes in Saudi Arabia and other countries. Some have reported that people are selling them out of car trunks and so on.

I just saw it last night. I can't think of a better therapy for the poor blind slaves of Islam!

[ovrtaxt]

www.prophetofdoom.net

[Old Student]

I don't think I need to go past the frontpage of that site. There are sites like that about my church, too.

One of the things you have to understand about Mohammed is that whatever his failings, and there are a multitude, he was a product of the culture he was raised in. They found 9-year-old girls sexually attractive and marriagable. That doesn't make him sick, just his whole culture. Modern Islam is not what Mohammed started, it is just what we wound up with, and it is terribly fragmented. The Republic of Turkey is a fine example of what Islam CAN be, but often isn't. It is a secular nation that is Muslim, like the USA is a secular nation that is Christian. They don't marry 9-year-olds there. They are willing to discuss religion. (they are not willing to allow conversion attempts, but those who chose to convert are not punished, either) The Turks are mostly Sunni, but fairly relaxed about it. They could, almost all of them, be considered apostate if you're a Wahhabi. When the Synagoge in Istambul was bombed, the senior cleric in Turkey condemned it quite strongly, and a lot of Turks ran into the wreckage to rescue the victims. There wasn't any public rejoicing. This isn't to say there aren't some Turks who aren't like that, and are exactly what Lady Heron claims they're all like. As I've said all along, on this and several other threads, "it don't take all kinds, we just got all kinds."

Here in America we had Tim McVeigh. He, too, was a veteran of Desert Storm. He though America was the problem, and took steps to try and make the rest of us see ourselves that way. He was wrong, and paid for it. The terrorists are wrong, and will pay for it, too. But it is a serious mistake to see all Muslims as terrorists, as quite a few of them are most assuredly not. Most, in fact, are not supportive of terrorist, whatever Lady Heron said. We'll find out more if she actually tells me what polls, specifically, she's talking about.

Not to mention what media reports. There aren't too many media outlets I trust, these days. I'm not seeing a lot of reporting on what our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan are finding, either. Mostly just speculation and "facts" that are contradicted by posters here on FR that are in-theater.

[ovrtaxt]

I don't think I need to go past the frontpage of that site.

You're not much of a 'student'.

[ovrtaxt]

This isn't to say there aren't some Turks who aren't like that, and are exactly what Lady Heron claims they're all like. As I've said all along, on this and several other threads, "it don't take all kinds, we just got all kinds."

There's a difference. Nutcase Christians who commit violence against innocents in the name of Jesus are very few, and are marginalized and happily locked up or executed.

Muslims who do the same are largely protected by their governments and celebrated as folk heroes.

The difference is in the scriptures of the two faiths. If you follow the Word of Jesus, you end up loving God and loving man to the point of sacrifice.

If you do the same with the Koran, you end up flying planes into buildings.

Again, don't assume your audiance here is ignorant. We know what the Koran says. We are basically asking the entire Muslim world to be like the Turks, who are really lousy Muslims (Thank G-d). 'Prophet of Doom' has simply taken the Koran and told the same story in historical context. Mohammed did more than just commit pedophilia. It is basically an Amway style death cult, whose goal is plunder, conversion by force, and control of the population through intimidation. The Taliban were pretty good at it. So is the Iranian regime.

Turkey is a terrible example of what Islam can be. They are completely backslidden. So are the fine immigrant Muslims who live here in the US who simply want to be a part of America. They are shameful in their practice of Mohammed's example.

What they need is a revelation of Jesus, not weak excuses from guys like you. You're not doing them any favors.

[ovrtaxt]

We'll find out more if she actually tells me what polls, specifically, she's talking about.

I don't know how to find tham and I don't feel like looking right now--it's only 7:30 am here. But in the West Bank and Gaza, and in polls taken among the general populations of certain nations, support for BinLaden is high, like well over 50%, IIRC. Even support for Saddam remains high, even though he killed more Muslims than anybody. I remember seeing them, and of course the media ignored them.

The ignorance is staggering. This is what you get when you deny the people access to basic knowledge about the outside world, and lie about the nature of Jews and Christians.

Again, it's all about control. Very Satanic.

[cupcakes]

A good place to start then if you don't want to actually sit down with the book itself is "Prophet of Doom". It is about Mohammed from the words of the Haddith.

[cupcakes]

That bears out if you go to present day Aryan sites. The people there are steeped in pagan ideology and most reject Christianity on its face and call it a religion of the Jew.
I suspect the modern day Nazis are mimicing much of what their 'hero' believed in.

[Junior]

By this guy's lights, everyone should convert to Mormonism...