Fines Against Passengers Draw Fire

FOX NEWS ^ | March 12, 2004 | Kelley Beaucar Vlahos

[BulletBobCo]

WASHINGTON

[olde north church]

Well some fines could be $900.00 and some could be $100.00 and that would equal ... umm, hold on, umm

[Geritol]

"Who carries a steak knive in a purse, anyway?"

You seem to be saying that never in your wildest dreams would you be prepared to actually eat steak like a civilized human being with a steel cutting utensil on either a campout, cookout or carryout meal. I can imagine a dozen good reasons for having a steak knife in a purse that have nothing to do with attacking either a person or the infrastructure of the airline industry. I can also imagine myself forgetting that it is there.

I carry all kinds of tools with me every day that could be used either by a terrorist or against one. However that is not the purpose of carrying them. I am equipped to live my life, not interfere with anyone else's. Do I need to start asking you if that is permitted?

It sounds like you are the kind of person that will say things like "who you gonna kill with that" or "that's illegal" when someone is actually prepared and opens up an appropriately sized blade to open the mail, cut a sandwich or apple for lunch, trim a stray thread or cut the shoestring caught in the scalator that is dragging the kid. You sound like the kind of person who thinks we should gnaw on string to cut it or to pick up the whole steak with the fork and try to bight pieces off of it. I hope I am wrong with this and that I have misunderstood your statement. With your attitude, more would have died on the Titanic (one lifeboat was freed by the use of a switchblade), burned to death in circus tent fires (a boyscout with a knife allowed dozens to escape) and been injured or killed in many different freak accidents through history.

Taking away my little swiss army knife will not make me safer. It certainly will not make you safer. Fining this woman for a forgotten steak knife is simply spiteful.

[NYCVirago]

You seem to be saying that never in your wildest dreams would you be prepared to actually eat steak like a civilized human being with a steel cutting utensil on either a campout, cookout or carryout meal.

And you seem to have a lot of vitriol in you, as the rest of your rant shows. Did you ever see the big old signs before you board a plane? You know, the ones that say that you can't bring weapons, including steak knives that can be used for cutting errant shoelaces and packages? I guess you thought those didn't apply to you, eh? So did this woman, which is why I have no sympathy for her.

And by the way, people can eat steak "like a civilized human being" without having to tote a knife around in their purse.

[NYCVirago]

Of course she isn't. But she isn't necessarily an idiot either, nor does she deserve a $300 fine.

You are aware this woman's an attorney, right? And she also just happens to work for a liberal advocacy group. She's either an idiot, or she's looking for a way to blame Bush.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Could have been worse. She could have been wearing her hat sideways.

[TankerKC]

What the hell are you talking about?

[RightOnline]

"Tweezers and nail clippers are not "prohibited items.""

Wanna bet?

Try carrying nail clippers on a flight next time.............see what happens.

[Geritol]

"I guess you thought those didn't apply to you, eh?"

Unfortunately, stupid laws apply to everyone. I am not claiming immunity or special variance, I am saying that the trading of freedom for security never works. Taking away my freedom to have the tools for life and personal safety close at hand does not increase your safety at all. In fact it decreases it because we now can not have the right tool for the right job.

Should this woman be punished? I am sure she deserved it, we all do at times, but I do not believe the punishment in this case is proportional to the "crime" of forgetting. If forgetfulness is severely punishable, few of us will escape unscathed.

I admit that it is possible she did this on purpose for her own agenda. However, without actual evidence of that being her purpose, we appear to be punishing her for being an advocate on the wrong side of the argument, not for forgetting to clean out her purse. She may deserve far more than a $300 fine, but the charge filed is the wrong way to get her.

As others have pointed out, the fine after the fact has nothing to do with deterring terrorism. It is structured in a way to intimidate and cow the average distracted and harried flier, not dissuade someone actually intent on causing mischief..

As far as vitriol, I am simply tired of people saying other people have no need for this or that as if need had anything to do with freedoms. If need is the standard for having or doing anything then we would soon find ourselves required to prove need to travel, to buy, to posess, to do. Did she need a knife? Why stop there? Did she need to fly at all? Did she even need that purse? If we do not support the basic freedoms of even those we disagree with, there will be no one left to support ours. If we support the looting of and incarceration of the forgetful and disorganized it is only a matter of time until our own personal character flaws become actionable.

[Damagro]

These fines exist to mollify the sheep; they have nothing whatsoever to do with actual security.


These fines exist to try and get the point accross to idiots not to bring steak knives to the airport in their purse. How much delay was caused by this one nimwit that day? The TSA gets the blame for the delay, but it was Ms steakknife that caused it

[Mulder]

She's either an idiot, or she's looking for a way to blame Bush.

And either may be the case, but that it no manner justifies her being harassed or fined, or having her Rights violated.

[ClintonBeGone]

The only way your point carries any credibility is if you think the TSA rules are fully credible.

They are certainly legal until a court rules otherwise. You would likely be one of the first bitching (if you could) if your flight was highjacked by someone with a steak knife, complaining about compensation for lost time and how inept the TSA is. You can't have it both ways HW.

[Cboldt]

... more than 10 million prohibitive items, including guns, fireworks, knives and box-cutters, have been captured during screening at U.S airports since Sept. 11, 2001. ... In the same period, a total of $144,830 was assessed

I come up with 3 billion dollars, at $300 per occurance. It'd help if the fine was posted, and assessed on 100% of the infractions.

[NYCVirago]

Thanks for your response. Something's very fishy about this woman's story. No lawyer would be so "intimidated" by officials as this woman claims to be. And she also doesn't tell us what happened when her knife was seized in the first place. I'm just not buying that everything went down the way she claimed it did.

[Old Professer]

Way back when I started through a detector at LAX and dumped my pockets in the tray; I had a small folding knife that I carried for work and the guard told me I would have to remove the knife from the terminal.

I walked down the ramp out of sight and laid the knife on a door ledge and went on back and right through the detector.

On the way out of the terminal I retrieved my knife.

[Henrietta]

"Wanna bet?"

You lose the bet. Here is the link to "prohibited and permitted items." Nail clippers are expressly permitted.

http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited_12_18_2003.pdf

Now what do I win? ;-)

[Henrietta]

"Wanna bet?"

You lose the bet. Here is the link to "prohibited and permitted items." Nail clippers are expressly permitted.

http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited_12_18_2003.pdf

Now what do I win? ;-)

[Henrietta]

"Tweezers and nail clippers are not "prohibited items."

"Maybe not, but there have been many reports of these kinds of items being seized at checkpoints. I've seen several such articles right here on FR. "

That was back at the very beginning of the "9/11 hysteria" shortly after that event. Now they are expressly permitted; see link at post 95.

[HighWheeler]

"You would likely be one of the first bitching (if you could) if your flight was highjacked by someone with a steak knife,.."

Let me 'splain this again. My point had nothing to do with hijacking or terrorism or contraband, per se. It has to do with the TSA turning a simple, one level situation into a big deal with woman who made an apparently simple mistake. The cost of just getting the 300 bucks out of her probably cost another $1500 (minimum) by the goobermint.

We already have several layers of protection in place, and not all of them are going to work 100% of the time. This one did. Finding mistakes should be part of the process, but if you attend the TSA ClownCollege, you find out that it's equal to nabbing a suspect.

The TSA carefully selects only those candidates who are too stupid to discern the difference between an obvious mistake by a scatterbrained woman and an al Qaeda mujahedin hijacking bomber. So both get fined $300 for carrying a steak knife.

Remember, these are the same morons who let the shoe-bomber walk on board a flight.

[supercat]

Nail clippers are expressly permitted.

Last time I was at the airport, they were permitted if and only if they did not have any sort of attached nail file. Since most clipper I've seen do have such an attached file, they would be prohibited unless such file was broken off.

[supercat]

You would likely be one of the first bitching (if you could) if your flight was highjacked by someone with a steak knife, complaining about compensation for lost time and how inept the TSA is.

First of all, nobody is going to successfully hijack a plane with any bladed weapon the size of a mere steak knife. Before 9/11, such a thing would have been possible, but no longer. Anyone who tries such a thing would be torn limb from limb by the passengers on the plane.

Secondly, there are many artifacts which would be more effective as weapons than a typical steak knife but which would be undetectable by magnetometers. Indeed, knives which can evade metal detectors are stone age technology. And there are other items that could be even more effective than bladed weapons.

Thus, I maintain that the TSA's current actions are more interested in molifying people with a 'sense of security' than with providing actual security.