Posted on 03/09/2004 3:56:46 PM PST by kAcknor
Authorities say a weapon discharged inside a store while an employee was showing it to a customer, with the bullet hitting a child standing nearby.
It happened at Woodbury Outfitters at approximately 1:55 p.m. Monday afternoon. The Coshocton County sheriff's office received a 911 call reporting it.
Eyewitnesses say the bullet richocheted off the floor and struck a 2-year-old child in the leg. The child was taken to a local hospital and then flown to Columbus Children's Hospital by a MedFlight helicopter.
Two-year-old Ryan Gildow remained hospitalized Monday night following surgery. He was listed in fair condition after the bullet was removed.
The owner of Woodbury's, Joe Miller, opened the sportsman's store about 18 months ago.
"Our policy is obviously no loaded guns inside the store," Miller told 10TV.
Miller says a store employee was showing a Walther PPK 380 handgun to a customer. According to investigators, for one reason or another, the employee put a bullet into the gun's chamber.
"He went to eject the round by racking the slide, at which time the fire arm discharged," Coshocton County Sheriff Tim Rogers said.
The .380 caliber bullet ricocheted off the floor and struck Gildow, who was standing with his father on the other side of the store. Miller, still in anguish over what happened by the hand of one of his own employees, explained what happened next.
"The second it happened, we dialed 9-1-1. They responded very quickly, thank God."
Gildow was rushed to a Coshocton hospital, and then transported by MedFlight to Children's Hospital where he underwent surgery to remove the bullet.
The store employee was questioned by sheriff's deputies. Monday night, investigators said it appeared to be a tragic accident.
"Shouldn't have ever have happened. Then you compound that being a two-year-old boy, it just is extemely tragic," Sheriff Rogers said.
The employee who fired the shot that wounded Ryan was said to be feeling terrible about the accident. It is up to the Coshocton County prosecutor to decide if this accident will lead to any charges.
I'm predicting a short run for this store, as it should be. There is no excuse for this whatsoever. It's lucky the kid wasn't killed. These guys should be selling something besides firearms.
I need to reply to this, and while in 99% of the cases, you're right, there is one time where this rule is not correct.
If you own a highly tuned competition handgun of the 1911 variety, you SHOULD KEEP THE TRIGGER DEPRESSED WHILE DROPPING THE SLIDE. Now, the most important thing to do here is make sure that the handgun is pointed safely down-range... But this is an example of having your finger on the trigger without having the target in your sights.
BTW, the reason for this rule is that many highly tuned 1911's, especially those with very light trigger pulls (mine has a 1.5 lb pull, and I've seen some as light as 12 oz) have carefully honed bearing surfaces on the sear and hammer. If you just drop the slide, those surfaces can get battered, eventually causing ADs. If you have the trigger depressed, the disconnector takes the pressure off of those bearing surfaces. When you fire the weapon, you can't release the trigger fast enough, so the disconnector is engaged there too...
I got this information from Ron Power, master revolversmith, and former armorer for the US Army's AMU.
Mark
Yes, they do. I don't think anyone here thinks the gun going off was intentional. But that doesn't automatically make this an accident. Putting that live round in the weapon was wrong, flat out and simple.
Negligent.
The entire chain of events begins with that act and therefore it's not accidental, it's negligence.
Accidents are normally like that, but we all see them as accidents because we all know that 'But for the grace of G*d, there go ourselves" and we overlook acts that if viewed with harsh reality would not be accidental at all, but somebody being an idiot.
In this case I can't overlook the act of loading a weapon in the store. Whatever the reason, there are alternatives to using live ammunition and the outright lack of common sense and rule breaking goes too far.
I don't wish the clerk ill, but at a minimum he should be fired and made to make restitution to the family and to the shop owner who will ultimately end up paying the bills.
I can't say you are wrong, but I will say that I think it's unfair. The owner didn't put the live round in, although he hired the guy that did. As I said in #63, we all have bad days, off times and we have all survived doing something very stupid. That's why "accidents" exist. Blame can be placed on just about every one, but we tend to overlook the everyday stuff because we have all been there.
This is not in any way excusing the action. The idiot using live ammo is wrong. The store owner who hired him? Heck, that could be any of us...
That of course, has nothing to do with 'fair', and the store may close just from the liability costs resulting from this.
So be it.
Fair or unfair isn't a high enough standard when you are dealing with deadly weapons. I know AD's and ND's happen and there is always an explanation. None are acceptable, particularly if someone is hurt. If someone is killed or injured, sorry doesn't cut it nor do excuses. Anyone who takes on the responsibility of handling firearms also takes on the responsibility of impeccable adherence to strict safety procedures. If not, they have no business handling firearms.
Yes, they do. I don't think anyone here thinks the gun going off was intentional. But that doesn't automatically make this an accident. Putting that live round in the weapon was wrong, flat out and simple.
I wasn't talking about the clerk when I said "accident's do happen." I was talking about my husband. If you notice, I put it in the same paragraph that I told you about how my husband dropped the gun. His was an accident. ;)
I agree that the clerk should be fired and he should pay all the medical bills.
I do. Generally, though, accidental discharges don't hurt anyone because they go into a range backstop or other safe direction. Following the safety rules will usually ensure that any unexpected discharge is relatively harmless, and so usually if an unexpected discharge causes an injury it will be because of negigence on the part of the shooter.
Even there, however, there are exceptions. A firearm which discharges unexpectedly due to mechanical problems may injure the shooter's hand if it's near a slide or operating lever even if the shooter is obeying all safety rules. And I don't remember any safety rules about being ready for a firearm to start slam-firing full-auto (I recall reading of someone who was killed when his SKS did precisely that when he dropped the bolt).
Finally, there are some cases where obeying all the safety rules just plain isn't possible. For example, if one is cleaning out a deceased person's second-floor apartment and finds bolt-action rifle with the action closed and safety on "safe", what is a safe course of action? There is no safe direction to point the thing, and opening the action would require flipping the safety to "fire". While the latter operation shouldn't fire the weapon, some bolt-action rifles can fire when the safety is flipped. So what would be a prudent action in such circumstances?
The one thing that you can count on in any gun shop I've ever been in is really spooky gun handling. Muzzles all over the place.
Guilty. Posting while tired. Ought to be a law...Or is it just an accident?
Oh well.. ;)
OK OK, I'm no absolutist about it! Let me re-phrase my statement to:
"Generally, I don't believe in Accidental Discharge."
...and take heed your 'unexpected discharge' description.
I'm not backing off in this case however, the shop employee was negligent in loading that weapon. :)
It's ok. I'm guilty of posting when I'm tired too. I'd say it was just an accident. LOL! That works for me. If it does for you, we've got a done deal. ;)
I would never own a weapon with a trigger pull of less than four pounds. It is too dangerous.
Take it to a remote safe area, point the rifle in a safe direction and unload the firearm (or go shooting with it).
That was my first thought also. Surprisingly however (it's too early to say for sure), I haven't seen anything except this story. My wife heard it on the TV broadcast, but it's hasn't jumped to any other local radio stations that I'm aware of. It may have been in the local newsrag as they are in same company, but I subscribe only for Sundays.
We will know for sure in a week or so.
It depends on what you're doing with that weapon... As I said, this is a highly tuned competition handgun, used ONLY for competition... Heck, when I was in high school, I shot a Remington 40XR .22 target rifle that had a 9 oz trigger pull. Both are terrific in controlled environments for what they were designed... Competition.
I would never use one of those for defense or general use. That's why I've got my S&W 625-5 that Ron Power did a "carry" action job on... For defense and carry, I feel much more comfortable with a revolver, something that I can shoot DA only, with a heavier trigger pull. I'm big enough to conceal an N-Frame revolver under a jacket, and the 6 .45 ACP rounds it holds should be more than enough for self defense, if it ever comes to that...
I've always considered a single action semi-auto, like the 1911 to be one of the finest combat weapons ever designed... That's my issue with it. It IS a combat weapon, while for concealed carry, I'd rather use a defensive weapon. One that requires more "work" to fire.
The key here is to use the right weapon for the job, and as you pointed out, a competition "race gun" like mine is definately the WRONG weapon.
Mark
Yes, except that transporting a loaded firearm of unknown condition isn't exactly safe either and in some states is just plain illegal.
The most common course of action would be to point it in a safe direction and clear it, but unfortunately on some bolt-action rifles is is not possible to clear the weapon without moving the safety to the "fire" position, and if the safety is defective doing so may fire the rifle.
It's hard to go wrong with a Sig.
Although, I would advise against the .380 caliber. The .380 has about half the energy of a 9mm cartridge (and many experts consider the 9mm itself to be only 'marginal' when it comes to stopping power).
There are many quality guns on the market today in 9mm or even .40 that are as small as the .380s.
I would recommend the Springfield XD subcompact in 9mm if you really want something small.
My grandfather taught me gun safety when I was 8 years old.
EVERY GUN IS LOADED, no matter if you are staring at the chamber and it is totally empty it is STILL LOADED!
IF the gun is in sixty two pieces it is STILL LOADED!
NEVER EVER POINT A GUN AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT.
NEVER HAVE YOU FINGER NEAR A TRIGGER UNLESS YOU MEAN TO PULL IT!
NEVER LOAD A GUN UNLESS YOU INTEND TO SHOOT IT!
THis guy broke about every rule I can think of!
That's a good choice, they also now offer the subcompact in .40 and .357 sig.
OTOH, if small is the key, look into Kahr Arms. Their K and MK series are very nice and I had a chance to fire the new E9 last night. Smaller than the XD, 9mm, and it's hard to overlook a 1.5" 6 shot group @25' first time out. ;) E9 is about the same price as the XD.
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