Posted on 03/06/2004 6:55:37 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder
Crawford, Texas - President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox joined forces Saturday to promote Bush's plan for easing immigration laws, as Bush acknowledged that the proposal faces a tough time in Congress.
Standing side-by-side in bright sunshine at Bush's Texas ranch, the two leaders said Bush's plan for a new temporary worker program would help both countries by eliminating the underground market for Mexican workers. The proposal would let an estimated 8 million workers who are in the United States illegally gain legal status as guest workers.
"The people who come to this country make a significant contribution to the American economy," Fox told reporters.
Bush's plan, announced in January, has raised expectations in Mexico and among illegal workers in this country, but it has little chance of passing Congress this year. Republican critics say the proposal would reward illegal immigrants; Democrats complain that it does not do enough to help foreign workers become U.S. citizens.
(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...
Both were meant to suggest you weren't paying attention to the deBaTe, because if you had been, you wouldn't have had to ask. If in fact you were not paying attention to the arguments because you were too busy concocting ways to shift it elsewhere, it is incumbent upon you to go back and consult the recorded record. It is not incumbent upon me to repeat myself and other ad nauseum, until such time that you decide to let the statements sink in and choose to address them.
Nevertheless, I gave you your "just one," again.
Voting to do what?
Heh.. Doesn't sound like it from your earlier postings. You chastised anybody that suggested same and for not getting down and licking GW's "oh so Conservative" boots.
I challenge you to find a post where I have ever "chastised" anyone for saying we need to get control of our borders. You can't because I haven't.
I have said several times in these debates that I don't support mass deportations of illegals who are already working and contributing members of society...but that I DO support any efforts to control our borders better.
Perhaps you should try addressing my actual posts instead of assigning me positions you feel most comfortable ranting against.
And by the way, your insulting comments about anybody defend Bush as "licking his boots" etc. sounds like something from DU.
I don't know who you think you're going to impress on FR by sounding like a rabid Bush hater.
By the way, I am not a persistent Bush basher. I do get upset when I see us kow-towing to Vincente. Makes one wonder if he has compromising photos of Bush or something. The level of giving in is so bizarre that one has to conclude somehow, we aren't being given straight answers.
Beyond that, the spending has GOT to stop.
Further, he has to do a better job of speaking directly to the voters, to offset the lies of the Dems. His "nice-guy" approach has gone too far, to the point of being collabeative with the Dems. It is starting to get offensive. I'm seeing signs of the gloves coming off, but he better start swinging, or I will start believing the "one-party conspiracy" crap.
Finally, I'd like to see him do a better job of reigning in bureacratic Fed Gov departments that are in cahoots with industry, to the detriment of the consumer and our personal freedom. The FDA comes to mind - that evil organization is one of my bigger pet peeves.
Actually this is the first time you've stated this in any of our exchanges.
And if you had posted it to me before you would have known that I agree with you.
Bush has allowed spending to get totally out of control.
I challenge you to find a post where I have ever "chastised" anyone for saying we need to get control of our borders. You can't because I haven't.
I'd say calling people "shortsited and foolish" for being upset with Bush over his pandering to the illgals would qualify. To whit:
I can only thank God that the other side has it's share of people just as short-sighted and foolish as to abandon their party over a single pet peeve issue.
Perhaps you disagree and you will suggest that you were responding to people prepared to "abandon their party." I don't think so. We all have the right to vent, and the venting is over a legitemate issue that you yourself have conceded is a problem.
I myself never intimated that I personally would abandon my party. My focus was on the mistake Bush is making. Your focus was on convincing all that they should continue to put up with it, because Bush has an "impressive list of Conservative accomplishments." That is what started our exchange. I replied that this wasn't a small issue, as you imply. It is a very big one. Thus, we have every right to bitch and moan over something we feel is important.
If we don't speak up, we will continue to get trampled on. Further, if we don't speak up, there is not prayer that Bush and his advisors will realize that they are ticking people off. They will blow the election and we will be stuck with all our worst fears. If you care, you will rebuke your guy for heading in the wrong the direction.
"Nevertheless, if he doesn't quit spending like a drunken sailor..."
- bluefish to Jorge, post #218
it is incumbent upon you to go back and consult the recorded record. It is not incumbent upon me to repeat myself and other ad nauseum
Oh, I get it now.
When you say that immigration is on ONE straw out of many that "broke the camel's back" when it comes to Bush's record...... it is out of line for anyone to ask you what the other "straws" were.
You don't have to answer such questions.
It is up to others to "Consult" the "recorded record"?.
Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what?
If you don't have an answer just admit it.
Wow, this is the first time you have even partially agreed with me on Bush's accomplishments. Forgive me but I am in shock.
"Nevertheless, if he doesn't quit spending like a drunken sailor..." - bluefish to Jorge, post #218
OK. I was wrong.
That post was so agonizingly long and boring I couldn't make it to the end. So I missed your "drunken sailor" comment.
Forgive me.
How fast you conveniently forget. And the post was only a few words this time around.
It's getting pretty pathetic Jorge.
- How fast you conveniently forget. And the post was only a few words this time around. It's getting pretty pathetic Jorge.
Oh yeah, do I need to include the post number this time too, or are you ok on your own now?
Forget what?
And the post was only a few words this time around.
What post?
It's getting pretty pathetic Jorge.
What's pathetic?
Oh, I get it now. When you say that immigration is on ONE straw out of many that "broke the camel's back" when it comes to Bush's record...... it is out of line for anyone to ask you what the other "straws" were. You don't have to answer such questions. It is up to others to "Consult" the "recorded record"?.
Nice use of selective quoting. Here, let me fill it in for you:
- "Both were meant to suggest you weren't paying attention to the deBaTe, because if you had been, you wouldn't have had to ask [As now proven and conceded by you]. If in fact you were not paying attention to the arguments because you were too busy concocting ways to shift it elsewhere,[Like the failed attempt to which I am now responding] it is incumbent upon you to go back and consult the recorded record [You may mock this and laugh, but you are probably beginning to wish you had about now]. It is not incumbent upon me to repeat myself and other[s] ad nauseum, until such time that you decide to let the statements sink in and choose to address them [Which you started to do, but couldn't help yourself but to jump back into the BS].
The part you choose to chop out was my justification for not repeating myself, or others. Of course, you failed to address that part of the argument, which became the critical point in our exchange. I can only conclude that you had no answer, so chose instead to focus on shifting the nature of my argument by only presenting the conclusion and criticizing it, rather than addressing the justification for the conclusion.
Nevertheless, I gave you your "just one," again." [The final line of the post, all by itself]
Are you trying to make me laugh on purpose or what? If you don't have an answer just admit it. - Jorge
Heh.. That part is the humorous part Jorge. At this point, you alread KNEW that I gave you an answer, yet you reverted right back to pretending I didn't. Be honest now, are you trying a Dem strategy - repeat a lie long enough and it will become truth?
Sorry if my posts are "long and boring," but when arguing with somebody that employs Clintonion selective memory, Dem style word-twisting and generally hides from the issues, one has to be careful to lay it all out on the table.
Unfortunately, none of us will ever know if you do this intentionally, or out of basic intellectual laziness. Anybody else reading gets to see the full exchange. Hard to believe anybody would put up with this much text, but I at least get some satisfaction out of it!
Oh I get it. I forgot to address the part of the argument which became critical to the shifting nature of the justification of the conclusion because it was not the focus of the convoluted and entangled argument you were presenting that I was criticizing.
How funny! It's the sign of a weak argument when you have to lead with a personal attack.
I am not for illegal immigration. I would deport all illegals today if it were possible to do so.
Of course it's physically possible. It isn't the physical that we need to worry about. The political and PC climate of this country makes it impossible to deport people in these numbers. You may not be conscious of political climate but most people are and they realize that mass deportation will not happen.
I'm with you, man. In spades.
I got home at 10pm last night, was exhausted, and starving. I had been up for 24 hours straight, and didn't feel like cooking or go to the grocery store.
I tried to do something as incredibly simply as order a pizza to be delivered. You know, one of those great convieniences of living in a modern day superpower. One of those cool little quality-of-life benefits we get from handing over 55% of our income to various governments. I figured I would avail myself of the American quality of life last night.
I spent at least 5 minutes "talking" to the guest worker who answered the phone. The language barrier was so bad that, that I said "screw it", and just went to bed hungry. I tried my best to speak high-school Spanglish to make my order, because he couldn't understand a word I was speaking. Yes, I made the effort to speak the language of his country. But, apparently he wanted perfect Spanish and didn't appreciate my efforts.
I know a pizza seems incredibly meager, meaningless, petty, and unimportant ... but that's not really the point. Unfortunately these experiences are not even close to being unique to the food service arena. It's getting more and more difficult to do ANYTHING in English around here.
But, they say it doesn't affect the quality of life for Americans.
They tell me that the 25 cents a quart I save on strawberries is worth it.
If we can take over another country, why can't we take over our own?
And who is responsible for all of them getting here in the first place?
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