Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Stand4Truth; Americathy; rbmillerjr; mc5cents; mware
I won't respond to your entire letter...I don't have the time. Moreover, I haven't read the original article yet. But I would like to comment on this POV and have taken the liberty of inviting several of your supporters to see if they also believe this.

YOU WROTE:The blood libel that this story had affixed upon the Jewish people had resulted in countless Christian massacres of Jews, and prepared Europe for the ultimate massacre -- 6 million Jews systematically murdered within six years.

So, you believe that the central act of the Christian faith is responsible for the holocaust.

I think you're twisting Krauthammer's words. The central act of the Christian faith was the crucifixion - not the role of the Jews, Romans or anyone else, correct? Isn't the central act that JC died for your sins? Or is the role of the Jews the central act because that's it appears you're saying to me. Have I misread you?

Moreover, if you don't believe there were massacres of Jews throughout history by "Christians" who blamed Jews for the death of JC, then what do you think prepared Europe for the Holocaust? Do you think Hitler just sprung up from nowhere and millions of "Christians" decided to go along with the idea of extermination as a lark? There was no prejudice against the Jews at all in "Christian" Europe? Or if there was, what do you think was the cause? Was it the behavior of the Jews? What did they do to make everyone hate them so much?

BTW, I use the quotation marks around the word, "Christian", because on a number of these threads I was told that true Christians would never have allowed Hitler to perpetrate his crimes against humanity. I mean no disrespect.

Clearly Christians believe that satan is behind motivating people throughout history to committ heinous sinful acts such as Hitler's murder of millions of Jews, Stalin's murder of millions of Christians,

FYI, Stalin murdered loads of Jews as well. But I digress. I'd like you to clarify this for me since I'm not Christian, but Jewish. The Jewish faith believes in free will. If a Jew decides to sin, he or she is not allowed to blame "Satan". They should take responsibility for their acts, ask forgiveness, repent, and resolve not to sin again. Perhaps it's different in Christianity. Do you blame all your sins on Satan and thus deny any responsibility for them? You have no free will?

22 posted on 03/05/2004 7:33:47 PM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: h.a. cherev
Good post thanks!
24 posted on 03/05/2004 7:47:17 PM PST by dennisw (“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]

To: h.a. cherev
If you study the causes of the Nazi movement you will find it heavily steeped in paganism. Yes, there were so-called Christians who went along with Hitler, but they were no true followers of Christ. Hitler used desperation and fear to weed out the true and came up with a whole lot of false ones. No true Christian would have followed Hitler when they heard him claim himself to be Christ.

Jesus himself noted how few were true, that the "gate is narrow." We have those same sort of "Christians" out there today, like KKK people who claim to be followers of Jesus. Their hatred is counter to true Christian teaching, and true Christians recognize the false ones almost immediately.

About free will: The letter writer didn't mean Satan causes people to sin, but encourages them to sin. If you believe in the Genesis record (maybe you do, maybe you don't), isn't that what Satan did? Christians understand that regardless of Satan's pressure on Adam and Eve, they were both personally responsible for their own actions.
25 posted on 03/05/2004 7:48:45 PM PST by Americathy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]

To: h.a. cherev
Cherev,

YOU WROTE:I think you're twisting Krauthammer's words. The central act of the Christian faith was the crucifixion - not the role of the Jews, Romans or anyone else, correct? Isn't the central act that JC died for your sins? Or is the role of the Jews the central act because that's it appears you're saying to me. Have I misread you?

I disagree. Krauthammer says that "the blood libel that "this story" has affixed upon the Jewish people has led to the Holocaust". He does not say that "those who misrepresent the Passion have affixed this blood libel that led to the Holocaust. He places the blame on "The Passion or The Story"

YOU WROTE: Do you blame all your sins on Satan and thus deny any responsibility for them? You have no free will?

I think you know the answer to this, but I'll respond to make sure. Christianity teaches and I believe that yes we all have a free will and can choose whether or not to sin, and whether or not to confess these sins and ask for Christ's forgiveness that was purchased by "His Passion". If we "choose" by our "free will" to reject this grace then we face the eternal consequences of Hell as a result of "a choice of our free will". If you read my post I state that Satan is behind "motivating" people to sin and always has been. This is clearly the case, but just as clearly we have the "choice" whether or not to give in to this motivation and we have no one but ourselves to blame in the end when we shall give account for our life before God. Hopefully that clears it up.

31 posted on 03/05/2004 8:22:39 PM PST by Stand4Truth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]

To: h.a. cherev
Free will is and always will be free will. It is what a loving G_d has given us human beings as a special gift unique to our humanity. Moreover, suggesting that Lucifer and Satan have the capacity to deceive one does not obviate free will. It is mankinds job to discern the difference between that which looks lovely to the eye and that which is truly of G_d. And no the crucifixion is NOT the central point of Christianity, the resurrection is. C.S. Lewis explains it clearly in Mere Christianity. The reality is that all sorts of folks can claim to be the One sent by G_d and die even a horrible death. But the thing that makes this one unique and worthy of belief is the resurrection without that the words are cheap and meaningless. Hitler's slaughter of those who did not agree with him was aided by his undermining the church before starting the slaughter. He was not a Christian and did not proclaim to be . In fact he and his followers were devoted to the Thule Society which had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity but rather neopagan Germanic mythology.
53 posted on 03/05/2004 11:36:08 PM PST by jnarcus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]

To: h.a. cherev
Moreover, if you don't believe there were massacres of Jews throughout history by "Christians" who blamed Jews for the death of JC, then what do you think prepared Europe for the Holocaust? Do you think Hitler just sprung up from nowhere and millions of "Christians" decided to go along with the idea of extermination as a lark? There was no prejudice against the Jews at all in "Christian" Europe? Or if there was, what do you think was the cause? Was it the behavior of the Jews? What did they do to make everyone hate them so much?

One reason certainly was the role of Jewish Bolsheviks in the Russian revolution, which in its extreme hostility to Christianity burned churches, murdered priests, killed nuns and deliberately starved 5 to 10 million Christians in the Ukraine. The fact that ordinary Germans were terrified of the the Bolsheviks made it easy for for for a master manipulator like Hitler to induce them to buy into his genocidal agenda.

54 posted on 03/05/2004 11:55:46 PM PST by DentsRun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson