The Jesuit scholar who translated `The Passion'

Catholic Citizens ^ | March 4, 2004 | Nathan Bierma

[NYer]

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list

[VOA]

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[Cicero]

Crazy.

[Nov3]

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[proxy_user]

The Latin seems to be a mistake.

The local Roman administrators and soldiers probably would have been Greek speakers.

[Congressman Billybob]

Thank you for posting this very interesting article. Like many folks on FR, I am a thorough student of trivia, and this feeds my habit.

Congressman Billybob

Click here, then click the blue CFR button, to join the anti-CFR effort (or visit the "Hugh & Series, Critical & Pulled by JimRob" thread). Please do it now.

[ojnab_bob]

I've seen this comment about the lack of Greek in the Passion a few times, and thought I would address it.

While it is true that after AD 100 the soldiers and administrators of the eastern Empire increasingly spoke Greek as their primary language, in the Julio-Claudian era about 90% of the legionnaires were still recruited from Italy (this would drop to a tiny percentage by the 2nd century; by the time of the events in the movie Gladiator, for example, most of the troops were recruited from Gaul, Illyria, Moesia, Anatolia and Syria).

So although Pilate and other equestrians serving in the East would certainly be able to speak Greek, which was the lingua franca of the Hellenized areas of the Empire, both he and his legionnaires generally would speak in Latin, as the movie reflects.

[.45MAN]

Wow something lighthearted for a change....

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

I must disagree with you. The Roman soldiers would have spoke Latin in some dialect. The legions of Rome, which are depicted in the movie, were exclusively recruited from among Roman citizens. At the time, the only place where Roman citizens lived, was Italy, and various Army retirement camps set up throughout the empire (like Trier in Germany) so the soldiers would have spoken Latin. Case can be made that Pilate would have spoken Greek, but he two was Roman, from Italy, Latin would have been his first language. A better method for that scene, would have been Pilate, speaking Latin, a translator into Greek, and then Jesus responding in Greek.

[Publius6961]

This is fascinating stuff. Are there (ancient) Aramaic dictionaries? Latin ones?

As for naughty latin dictionaries, there is at least one that I know of... if I can put my fingers on it.

[joesnuffy]

A better method for that scene, would have been Pilate, speaking Latin, a translator into Greek, and then Jesus responding in Greek.

I respectfully disagree....as Jesus is God...and as such...hardly need any formal education..

He came to teach... He raised the dead...gave sight to the blind ...and healed lepers by his touch....this done in front of thousands of witnesses...

The disciples later declared...that if every miracle they saw Him perform was written down ..they would fill volumes...

Jesus is God and proved himself to be so....he needed no translators...and could have as easily spoken in Swahili or Cherakowa Apache

Although your version would have been kinda neat if..once Pilate's latin had been translated into Greek having Jesus answer back in Latin saying he had no need of a translator...

imo

[Coleus]

Loyola Marymount University

Yep, and I just heard it first hand from a friend from the K of C where he told me that his nephew is a cameraman out in Hollywood and told his uncle that Mel did months of research at Loyola Marymount before writing the script.

[rogator]

"Case can be made that Pilate would have spoken Greek, but he two was Roman, from Italy, Latin would have been his first language."

I believe Pilate was from Spain. Spain had been Roman since the end of the Punic Wars. I believe that the merchant class of spain was largely Greek speaking but who knows Pilate's actual background. He could more easily have been a native Latin speaker. Based on what I have read regarding archeology of Roman camps, the soldiers would have spoken whatever Latin they could. I can't imagine a officer of any rank not using Latin when conducting his official duties.

[ELS]

You might find this article of interest.

[Mrs.Liberty]

Have you seen the film? I ask only because I am having an argument with a collegaue over the costumes and uniforms worn by the Romans in the film...he states these uniforms and the body armour are historically and culturally inaccurate. Is this true? I do not know one way or the other.
thanks

[Victoria Delsoul]

Great info. Thanks so much.

[rogator]

Based on reliefs on various monuments as well as artistic renditions the uniforms/armor looked quite authentic. Maybe we have a professional archeologist or Roman historian on the board who will respond to this.
The uniforms etc. are certainly subject to artistic license but were definitely within the parameters of what I would expect.

[AAABEST]

Paul's first letters to the Romans were immediately translated to Latin so that the "Romans" could be proselytized.

NWU is correct. If the soldiers were in fact Roman they spoke Latin.

[aristeides]

Thanks. I do find it surprising that Gibson used no Greek at all, when he could have used the unaltered words of the New Testament for at least some of the dialogue.