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To: per loin; Polybius; walden
Frank Rich again? Is he afraid that if he doesn't condemn Gibson often enough, he will lose his position on today's Sanhedrin of Jewish journalists?

I find it interesting that no one, to date, has commented in response to this statement. Polybius; walden - what do you think of it?

62 posted on 03/05/2004 7:00:14 PM PST by h.a. cherev
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To: h.a. cherev
"Frank Rich again? Is he afraid that if he doesn't condemn Gibson often enough, he will lose his position on today's Sanhedrin of Jewish journalists?"

I don't like the analogy because "Jewish" is both a religion and an ethnicity, and to lump religious Jews with secular Jews is unfair. I guess Rich is of Jewish ancestry (which, to me, is about as relevant, when applied to an American, as Scottish, or Mexican, or Lower Slobovian), but I have no idea whether he's religious or not. However, I think Rush Limbaugh hit it on the head when he said in reference to Andy Roony that he had to say what he did in order to be allowed to stay in the club of sophisticated liberal elite opinion-makers (or, so THEY think ;) .) Same idea, but better expressed.

Thinking about all of the criticism of the "Passion", though, I did realize that secularists and religious Jews DO share one thing-- because none of them believe in the divinity of Christ, they all also disbelieve in all of the miracles Christ performed in the Gospels. (For the record, lots of liberal Christians also disbelieve in the miracles.) That casts the behavior of Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin in an altogether different light-- if Jesus hadn't really performed miracles, then these men were just ruthlessly power-hungry and intolerant. Despicable. But, when I look at them in the context of my firm Christian belief in Christ's miracles, and realize that they also knew that the miracles were real, that changes everything. From the perspective of the Sanhedrin, it wasn't a question of whether Christ was God or merely a man, it was a question of whether he was God or the Devil. Their fear is understandable. No doubt they thought that, if he was truly the Son of God, as the high priests, God would have let them know that he was on the way. Ergo, he had to be the Devil. This is not to say that I completely absolve them of their jealous desire to retain position, power, and control over the people, but it does make them much more understandable, more human.

I had a discussion afterwards with the two Christians I saw the movie with about how we identified with the various characters. My feeling then, and now, was that I hope if I had been there that I would have been one of the good guys, but what are the odds? I have seen parts of Pilate and Caiaphas in myself, even parts of the mob shouting for Christ's death. Or, I could have just been one of the crowd that turned away, indifferent to His fate and just wanting to avoid trouble. At best, I could have been Peter, who denied Christ three times out of fear. The only comfort I take is that no way could I have been a Roman soldier.

It's been a week now since I saw it, and I have finally managed to distill what the film left me with-- an overpowering realization of my own unworthiness, and a huge feeling of gratitude for the incredible gift of God's love.
63 posted on 03/05/2004 7:59:45 PM PST by walden
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To: h.a. cherev
Frank Rich again? Is he afraid that if he doesn't condemn Gibson often enough, he will lose his position on today's Sanhedrin of Jewish journalists?

I find it interesting that no one, to date, has commented in response to this statement. Polybius; walden - what do you think of it?

Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't keep track of who is a "Jewish" journalist or politician or Government advisor and who is not.

Of course, with some people such as Joe "Did You Know I'm a Devout Orthodox Jew?" Lieberman, the issue is crammed down our collective throats. For others, I find that keeping a "Jewish Score Card" clouds the issues.

For example, the entire issue of "Neo-Cons" is being used to substitute the boogeyman of "the Jews have an agenda" for the fact that a conservative President has some conservative advisors who happen to be Jewish and whose foreign policy advice serves the vital interests of the U.S. and not some global Jewish conspiracy.

In my own Miami Cuban American ethnic background, one of "our" Cuban American Comgressmembers is Representative Ilena Ros-Lehtinen who is a very strong supporter of Israel. Cuba had a sizable Jewish community that fled Castro along with the rest of us. They jokingly refer to themselves as "Jewbans".

With Ileana's maiden surname of "Ros", it is a given that her paternal line was of "Jewban" origin. However, whether Ileana is now Jewish or Catholic is really quite irrelevant to us. I don't know and I don't care. The only thing that matters is that Ileana thinks and votes like "we" Cuban Americans do. We Catholic Cuban Americans think of "Jewbans" as one of "us" and we think of a Ted Kennedy Catholic Liberal as one of "them".

That is the basic ideological divide: The Left vs. our side.

The Left tends to use the same tactics and one of those tactics is to stiffle debate by throwing out the "Insult and/or Bigot Card". Criticism of a Black Liberal is "racist". Criticism of a Jewish Liberal is "anti-Semitic". Any war against non-Europeans is a "racist war". Any mention of 9/11 is an "insult to the victims". Any criticism of a Mexican is also "racist".

On the flip side, any criticism of a Cuban American is............ "Progressive".

Yep. I get pretty damned sick of that.

The pack of Leftist journalists that engage in this practice is not defined by religion or ethnicity but by their Leftist ideology.

They do not constitute a "Sanhedrin" because, in the ancient Judean Sanhedrin, issues were actually debated and discussed there. The Leftist journalist cabal has it's Politically Correct cookbook of pre-determined responses. Put an issue on the table and we can predict what "insult" they will write about.

Although I don't go searching for an individual's religious roots, I do believe that their particular ancestral background can have a profound effect on their thinking.

I am not a Protestant but, by flipping through the cable channels, I have seen that the most fervently pro-Israel media in America today is the "Christian" cable station. They may have their religious reasons but they truly belive that the Jewish people are God's special people and that an enemy of the Jews is an enemy of God.

That may be totally at odds with the experience that an Ashkenazi's grandfather may have had back in Eastern Europe where pogroms were the national sport but that is the reality of Bible Belt Protestant America.

For that reason, it is my belief that Left-wing Ashkenazi Jews have done America and the Jewish people as a whole absolutely no good by bringing and nurturing their Eastern European political baggage to America.

It is my belief that Left-wing Ashkenzi Jews romanticize Communism because Communism was the political force that was going to overthrow the hated Czar and grandpa emmigrated to America before the family could actually experience Communism's evils like we Catholic and "Jewban" Cuban Americans did.

It is my belief that Left-wing Ashkenzi Jews see a Republican and they never get past the superficial labels of "Left" vs. "Right" as if European political labels coined during the French Revolution meant the same things across centuries and across the Old and New Worlds. So therefore, a Republican is "Right", as the Nazis allegedly were "Right", so voting Republican is is like voting to send Anne Frank to the gas chamber.

It is my belief that Left-wing Ashkenzi Jews see American Protestant Bible Belt Christians who takes their religion very seriously and they automatically see a mob of Eastern European peasants ready to get out their pitchforks and torches for the monthly pogrom.

It is my belief that Left-wing Ashkenzi Jews see America as if it were Czarist Russia or Czarist Poland or as if it were Nazi Germany and reflexive attack anything labeled "Right", "Christian" or "Conservative"......in short, they attack the traditional values of Old America when it was precisely those values that created the America that saved then from the revages of the Old World.

If Left-wing Ashkenzi Jews ever see the day that the values of Old America have been destroyed, they may be shocked to find an America much like the Eastern and Central Europe that great-grandfather escaped from. They may find that Politically Incorrect no longer means "practicing Christian" but maybe now means "Jew, either practicing or secular" as Political Correctness changes to be in harmony with "sophisticated" Europe and with militant Blacks and MEChA types.

If Left-wing Ashkenzi Jews ever see the day that the values of Old America have been destroyed, they will miss those American Bible Belt Protestants that believed those silly, superstitious ideas that God had made the Jews a special people and that an enemy of the Jewish people was an enemy of God.

82 posted on 03/06/2004 11:21:44 AM PST by Polybius
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