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To: Polybius
I guess I should make it clear that I am writing rhetorically in regards to the Leftists who make it a profession to be easily offended.

I see. I've met more than a few freepers on these Passion threads who might fit that description. But then the term, "easily offended" is sort of an elastic yardstick. No matter, the Foxman's of the world have rendered the term "anti-Semitism" meaningless through their overuse.

Was Nazi Germany ?Christian?? You betcha.

Well, there's a first time for everything.

Their religious education was obscenely warped by the Hitler Youth but they truly believed they were saving Christianity and Germany by acting like savages towards the Jews, the Slavs and the other untermenchen.

Could you clarify this for me, please. It seems you are saying that the feelings for the Jews in Christian Europe was only warped by the Hitler Youth. I probably am misreading you.

However, the problem comes when the guilt felt by one party is acted out in such a way so that a second party must never mention any wrongs of the first party.

I don't think that's the case here but I can understand your position. Several of the reviews mentioned not only some historical inaccuracies regarding Pilate and the Jewish High Priest, but decribed the Jewish mob in stereotypical terms. I don't think it's a question of mentioning the wrongs of one particular party, but how those wrongs are portrayed.

Just to set the record straight, I have no problem with the movie whatsoever. But I can see how others would.

However, how many Americans know that, in 1217, English Jews were made to wear yellow badges or that all Jews were expelled from England in 1290 not to return for 350 years?

Very, very few. Besides, those of us who are not too thrilled with the English don't have to go back that far to find something to justify our feelings.

For 200 years, while Jews lived in the Catholic Kingdoms of Spain, England had been ethnically cleansed of all Jews. But, today, only Spain is vilified for it's treatment of the Jews.

I think "vilified" is a little strong. After all, it was over 500 years ago. I've been around quite a while and while I know many people who won't touch anything made in Germany, I haven't heard anyone say they won't buy Spanish products.

You wanna Toquemada movie? How about a musical?

Go out and rent Mel Brooks? ?History of the World, Part I? and treat yourself to ?The Inquisiton Song?. I promise I won?t take it personally. ;-)

OK, OK, we're going to start joking now.

58 posted on 03/05/2004 6:15:53 PM PST by h.a. cherev
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To: h.a. cherev
Their religious education was obscenely warped by the Hitler Youth but they truly believed they were saving Christianity and Germany by acting like savages towards the Jews, the Slavs and the other untermenchen.

Could you clarify this for me, please. It seems you are saying that the feelings for the Jews in Christian Europe was only warped by the Hitler Youth. I probably am misreading you.

I will clarify.

No, I am not referring to the mere "feelings" but the intensity of the feelings and, most importantly, how the feelings were translated into action.

Was Europe anti-Semitic? It sure was.

America was anti-Semitic too back then.

Many parts of Europe are anti-Semitic right now.

However, there is a vast difference between the "I don't like Jews" anti-Semitism and rounding up 6 million human beings for extermination.

Was Germany during World War One anti-Semitic? Yes, it was. During World War One, being Catholic in the United States would not win you much favor either.

However, in Germany during World War One, Germany was tolerant enough to lionize it's Jewish war heroes.

Lt. Wilhelm Frankl, was awarded the Pour le Merite (The "Blue Max"), Germany's equivalent to the Congressional Medal of Honor.

His portrait was sold as a "Sanke Card" which were photos of German war heroes (mostly the glamorous aviators) that were the military version of baeball hero cards in World War one Germany. Frankl's Sake Card, when it was issued, bore the inscription: "Our most successful flyer, Lieutenant Frankl."

Another German World War One Jewish war hero was Fritz Beckhardt who was awarded the Iron Cross (First Class), the House Order of Hohenzollern with Swords, the Hessian Medal of Bravery and the Hessian Order of Ernst Ludwig.

Fritz Beckhardt, in one of war's greatest ironies, decorated his World War One German aircraft with a swastika. Of course, back during World War One, the swastika had no political meaning and was merely a universally recognized good luck charm. Raul Luftberry, of the Lafayette Escadrille, also decorated his SPAD with a "good Luck" swastika.

Fritz Beckhardt's love and loyalty for Germany was so great that, after the Armistice was signed, Beckhardt refused to deliver his plane over to the Allied enemy and instead flew it to Switzerland.

And how was Beckhardt's loyalty to Germany repaid during the Nazi era? Beckhardt ended up in a concentration camp. Fortunately, Hermann Goering (a World War One aviator himself), at the pleading of another World War One German Jewish aviator, Berthold Guthmann, secured Beckhardt's release and Beckhardt escaped from Germany.

A few years later, Berthold Guthmann was sent to the concentration camps that he had saved Beckhardt from and he died there.

World War One Germany, despite all of it's anti-Semitic faults, was a nation that Jews were willing to fight for, to die for and to defy Allied orders for, as Beckhardt did to preserve the honor of his squadron.

Even monsters such as Hermann Goering retained a bit of the honor of Imperial Germany when he arranged the freedom of his old Jewish comrade, Fritz Beckhardt.

But Nazi Germany was a different creature.

The Jewish war heroes were expunged from the list of Por le Merite winners. German Jewish war heroes were sent off to extermination camps as if they were insects.

That quatum leap from Jewish Por le Merite recipients to Jewish untermenchen deserving of extermination was a Nazi ideological creation.

That extreme ideology had to be instilled in the tabula rosa that was German youth. The mechanism for that indoctrination was the Hitler Youth.

That is what I mean by my refernce to the Hitler Youth.

Mere anti-Semitism produces a Dreyfus Affair.

Nazi ideology, ingrained into the psyche of millions of youths by the Hitler Youth, produced 6 million dead Jews ten year down the road.

That is the difference.

64 posted on 03/05/2004 8:10:11 PM PST by Polybius
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