Krauthammer: "Gibson's Blood Libel"

Washington Post ^ | Mar. 5, 04 | Charles Krauthammer

[churchillbuff]

Gibson's Blood Libel

By Charles Krauthammer Friday, March 5, 2004; Page A23

Every people has its story. Every people has the right to its story. And every people has a responsibility for its story. ...[snip]

Christians have their story too: the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Why is this story different from other stories? Because it is not a family affair of coreligionists. If it were, few people outside the circle of believers would be concerned about it. This particular story involves other people. With the notable exception of a few Romans, these people are Jews. And in the story, they come off rather badly.

Because of that peculiarity, the crucifixion is not just a story; it is a story with its own story -- a history of centuries of relentless, and at times savage, persecution of Jews in Christian lands. This history is what moved Vatican II, in a noble act of theological reflection, to decree in 1965 that the Passion of Christ should henceforth be understood with great care so as to unteach the lesson that had been taught for almost two millennia: that the Jews were Christ killers.

[Joe Republc]

I have a post somewhere about Rabbi Lapin, an orthodox Jew who defends the Passion, and faults those Jews who assault the movie.

-- Joe

[NeoCaveman]

You are not seriously asserting that Mel Gibson made this movie to make money, are you?

Ya, a movie in foreign languages with subtitles gaurantees a box office score. RMFE.

[veronica]

Anytime someone uses the term "Israel-first", you know exactly where they are coming from. You don't have to guess. :)

[sinkspur]

yes it does come down to that with you.

Actually it doesn't. What it comes down to is how exercised some Christians get when some Jews disagree with them about a movie. It's as if you, yourself, are being personally attacked.

The movie is wildly successful and will continue to be so. So, few people are paying attention to those who don't like the movie. But, they've still got a right to their opinion. Let's not try to beat them down because they disagree with us.

[dennisw]

How does Christian-Jewish conflict "lay the groundwork" for the Holocaust? This is the sheerest bigotry. It is a lie. There is absolutely no linkage. There were religious frictions which are common to all people everywhere. The Jews are no less hostile to Arabs than Christians were to Jews. But they do not commit genocide. The Holocaust was sui generis--and it is a libel against Christianity to say otherwise.

Then what set the stage for the holocaust? It didn't come from nothing. There is a long European history.  Holocaust didn't materialize out of thin air. You can claim Adolph Hitler, his top leaders and the SS were anti Christian but this does not explain how 6 million European Jews ended up dead. You can claim that Jews don't want to accept that that Jewish Pharisees are responsible for the death of Jesus. Other side of the coin is you cannot accept Christian blame for the Holocaust. Be careful because I'm not saying that the entire blame for the Holocaust falls on the shoulders of European Christians.

[Publius6961]

Christians have their story too: the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Why is this story different from other stories? Because it is not a family affair of coreligionists. If it were, few people outside the circle of believers would be concerned about it. This particular story involves other people. With the notable exception of a few Romans, these people are Jews. And in the story, they come off rather badly.

Speaking of badly... this should serve as a classic example of faulty (or fraudulent) reasoning in high school and university education.

This propagandist misses his own postulate: This particular story involves other people. And even a second grader will deduce that all of the people at the beginning of Christianity were Jews!

D'OH!

It is like arguing that discussing the intricate details of the Oklahoma City bombing is anti-American!

What an educated moron!

[dennisw]

I don't know what you thought of Mel's PASSION but I thank you for bringing Emmerich's visions into this thread. And you are right that Emmerich's secretary is suspected of adding to Emmerich's visions when they were put down on paper.

[Taliesan]

Of course, when you replied you are not jealous of a "schismatic" you knew, as you typed the words, that the charge of jealousy was not associated with his religious views or his parentage at all, but about the movie making money -- which, by the way, was the issue YOU raised about the movie, among all the possible ones.

You deflected the comment by directing the subject AWAY from the money to his religion and his father -- away from the issue YOU raised.

When somebody does something risky, says they are doing it for love in spite of all predictions it will lose money, makes several decisions which make it less, not more marketable, then -- surprise! -- it makes money, you are both irrational and cynical at a deeply personal level to say "It's about the money."

When somebody expesses a preference which is patently against the available evidence, the only place left to look to explain the preference is in the personal psychology of the speaker.

By this rational heuristic we derive two inescapable conclusions: Gibson acted from religious motives and you're jealous of the money.

Next.

[ultima ratio]

They WERE the chosen people. But no longer. Jesus changed all that: Go forth and preach to ALL nations, etc. Remember the parable about the rich man inviting his friends to the wedding? When they all made excuses, he sent his servants to the highways and byways to bring in just anybody. That's us, my friend. We're all now chosen.

And you're right. I'm a traditional Catholic. I don't buy this new speculationg about the Jews not needing conversion. It is not a binding doctrine, merely a theological opinion. In fact the Church has always taught that Jews need conversion and redemption like everybody else. I also think the endless apologies of JPII to Jews and Muslims have only fueled the hatred against us--and have been counter-productive.

[xsmommy]

I have discussed this movie with a Jewish friend/coworker in some depth. i am very familiar with the fears and biases associated with the Jewish point of view. i acknowledge that everyone views the film through their own personal prism of experience and their own views. it makes sense to me to see you ragging on Mel Gibson, when i recall your attitudes toward the Tridentines.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

exactly, I am shocked by this

[sinkspur]

I haven't seen the movie, and likely won't until it comes out on DVD. I can't stand crowded movie theatres (or empty movie theatres, for that matter). I also don't like gory movies.

Emmerich was on track for canonization until her visions got in the way.

[Taliesan]

I have not read her, nor do I care about her, nor is my post about her.

The discussion is only germane if the flogging scene is not reflective of biblical sources.

Isaiah 53 was the text on the screen as the lights dimmed in the theatre where I saw it.

[Publius6961]

Neither of us thought the movie had the slightest hint of antisemitism. Anyone who says otherwise is, in my opinion, fabricating it.

I think you have found the mother lode!
That is the ultimate prize: why?

[sinkspur]

You turn a discussion about Gibson into an attack on me.

Analyze that, amateur shrink.

[sinkspur]

it makes sense to me to see you ragging on Mel Gibson, when i recall your attitudes toward the Tridentines.

I'm not ragging on Gibson. I've seen every one of his movies, up to now.

I'm ragging on Christians who will brook no disagreement with their point of view.

[sinkspur]

it makes sense to me to see you ragging on Mel Gibson, when i recall your attitudes toward the Tridentines.

I'm not ragging on Gibson. I've seen every one of his movies, up to now.

I'm ragging on Christians who will brook no disagreement with their point of view.

[Just mythoughts]

Then what set the stage for the holocaust? It didn't come from nothing. There is a long European history. Holocaust didn't materialize out of thin air. You can claim Adolph Hitler, his top leaders and the SS were anti Christian but this does not explain how 6 million European Jews ended up dead. You can claim that Jews don't want to accept that that Jewish Pharisees are responsible for the death of Jesus. Other side of the coin is you cannot accept Christian blame for the Holocaust.

"Be careful because I'm not saying that the entire blame for the Holocaust falls on the shoulders of European Christians."


Well well well, isn't this just RICH!

YOUR big problem in what you accuse, is that CHRIST died without SIN! No other being can make that claim. From the beginning it was SIN that brought about man's downfall.

You believe what you choose, however, blaming Christ(ians) won't fly.

[Publius6961]

I ask these questions because I do not know...So inform me please.

If memory serves me right, about 10 million. Most presumably Christian. It may be more, but I don't think it worth the trouble to pursue.

[dennisw]

Count me in toofor waiting for the DVD. Mostly to select, go back later maybe to the gory scenes. I don't want to see someone (Jesus) being flayed for 10 minutes. DVD will allow me to rewind and miss nothing.

Like you, I'm not into gory films in general.