Drug Czar Answers Your Questions on "Ask the White House"

John Walters
Hello, I am John Walters, and I look forward to chatting about what is on your mind.

Jason, from Springfield, MO writes:
Sir: Can you report any significant progress at securing the northern and southern land borders against drug smuggling? Are large amounts of drugs still entering the country from Canada and Mexico, and if so, what can be done?

John P. Walters
We have had remarkable cooperation with Mexico during President Fox's administration. We are not only strengthening the security at our borders, but, more importantly, we are putting much greater enforcement pressure on the criminal organizations that use the border. We still have much to do, but the border is better today than it was several years ago and will continue to get better in the months ahead.

Unfortunately, Canada has become a major supplier of marijuana during this same period. Law enforcement cooperation has been very good, but pressure on the criminal organizations has more progress to make.

Michael, from Ogdensburg NY writes:
What is your plan for 28 day rehabilitation programs, and IOP (Intensive Out Patient) programs for teens and people who do not have the means of paying for the help. Thanks.

John P. Walters
Last year the President requested $200 million in additional treatment funds to address critical needs in the states. These funds would be in addition to the roughly $2 billion the federal government already provides each year. The first $100 million of the new money was approved by Congress and will be available shortly. Our goal is to provide all forms of treatment for all ages as they are needed by individual communities.

Edwin, from Washington, D.C. writes:
Do you think the film Traffic is an accurate depiction of what really happens?

John P. Walters
Traffic did a good job of capturing the complexities of the drug trade. It showed the ruthlessness of those that push drugs, the corrupting influence of drugs on institutions of law, the depravity that drugs often drive addicts to, and that people from all walks of life are susceptible to the disease of addiction. I was discouraged, however, at how little hope there was in the movie. We know how to make the drug problem smaller and how to heal those who have become addicted. Drug use has dropped markedly in the past two years because we have applied that knowledge. Our success will increase as more and more Americans lose their cynicism about reducing drug use and realize there is something that each of us can do about it.

Edwin, from Washington, D.C. writes:
What is the most challenging aspect of trying to eliminate drug-trafficking?

John P. Walters
In the last few years we have really made an effort to analyze drug production and trafficking through a business model. Anyone who runs a company, whether it is a huge corporation or a corner store, knows that there are market forces that can hurt the bottom line. We are trying to identify those forces that will put drug cartels and trafficking organizations into a recession. We are doing this by attacking drugs at the source, along supply lines, and arresting the key players that run these businesses. We are having better success than at any previous time because of the cooperation of governments in Colombia and Mexico that realize that these organizations are a cancer that hurt the institutions of law and democracy in nations that they operate in.

ruby, from pooint roberts, WA writes:
Do you agreethat tighter immigration and border control would help in the fight against drugs?

John P. Walters
As we tightened the borders post-9/11 looking for a small number of terrorists and the weapons they would use to harm us, we obviously caught a lot more drugs in the tighter net. Unfortunately, drug traffickers are always seeking ways to get around our latest techniques to detect them at our borders. It is important that our borders are secure, but if our borders are where we seek to stop this problem, then we will come up short. Because of this, we are working more extensively than ever with our partners in Mexico, Colombia, and other nations that house the majority of these trafficking organizations. We are making excellent progress at eradicating and seizing these harmful drugs long before they get to our borders.

Tenah, from Tennessee writes:
I am originally from Iowa, but have relocated. In Iowa Methemphedemines aka "Crank" was everywhere. It has just recently started showing up in Tennessee. Having had witnessed firsthand what it can do to a person. I was wondering what steps you are taking to bring this particular substance under some sort of control? From what I hear it is not a drug that is improted form other countries it is manufactured here in peoples homes even cars. How can we root it out. I hear it is very dangerous to make and the ingredients are common. Is that true? I just don't want my children to have to be around it, like I said I've seen what it can do to poeple and the people around those who use it.

John P. Walters
You are well informed on this topic. Methamphetamine is an addictive drug that is extremely dangerous to both take and produce. Meth “cooks” often operate in garages, cars, motel rooms, or what appears to be just a regular house in the neighborhood. “Cooking” meth involves a dangerous process that can kill those involved through either poisoning or explosion. Unfortunately, we often find children in the places where meth is produced. The byproducts of making meth are extremely toxic and are usually disposed of by pouring the chemicals down the drain or dumping them in the soil. We are working to restrict access to the precursor chemicals required to make meth. We have shut down some large operations in Canada that were supplying the precursors to drug cartels in the Central Valley of California. These “Super Labs” are estimated to produce up to 80% of the domestic supply of methamphetamine. We are also working with local officials to train them to identify and safely dismantle meth labs.

Carol, from Erie, PA writes:
I am a social worker in a drug and alcohol rehab. Recently the number of individals presenting for treatment who are addicted to the prescription drug Oxycontin has risen drastically. Is there currently a study under way to look at this issue, and the possibility of tighter regulations to control this particular drug?

John P. Walters
Just today we released the National Drug Control Strategy which, among other things, focuses on reducing the diversion of legitimate pharmaceuticals to those that are using them for non-medical reasons. These drugs are critical for people dealing with painful illnesses, but too often they are being abused by children and adults that have no medical need to take them. Often times they are being purchased through illegitimate internet pharmacies and other fly-by-night operations that seek to circumvent the normal medical procedures we have put in place to protect people from abusing these drugs.

Steven, from Normal, Illinois writes:
How is the progress of trimming down drug use amoung teenagers in the United States?

John P. Walters
I’m glad you asked. Two months ago we announced the release of the 2003 "Monitoring the Future" study that showed an 11 percent decline in teen drug use. This exceeded the President’s two-year goal of a 10 percent reduction. This success is due in large part to the renewed seriousness that drugs have in the American consciousness. We have seen evidence that part of this is due to the success of our National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign. It has helped to change the way that teens think about drugs, especially marijuana, a drug that is often mistakenly thought of as being harmless. Teens now know that it is the leading cause of addiction among illegal drugs among both youth and adults. We are not resting on this success, however. The President has set a five-year goal of a 25 percent reduction in teen drug use, and we have three years of hard work ahead of us to achieve it. If the last two years have been a lesson, we know it is very achievable.

Kyle, from NY writes:
Hi, Drugs are a growing concern in many schools-including mine and I live in a suburban town. How are you dealing with this issue?

John P. Walters
One of the most promising tools that we want schools to know about is student drug testing. President Bush announced $25 million in grants in his proposed 2005 budget to support school-based drug testing programs. This is an issue that individual communities need to examine for themselves and decide if it is right for them. Drug testing has shown itself to be very successful in both deterring drug use and identifying those that need intervention to help overcome a budding or full-blown drug problem. Drug testing is not used to punish students, and it must be done confidentially. The Supreme Court of the United States has said that drug testing is permissible for public school students in voluntary extracurricular activities. We encourage schools, parents, and community members to examine this effective tool.

Chris, from Missouri writes:
Dear Mr.Walters i was just wondering, if you could tell me more about your job, and how you feel about the drug war we face today.

John P. Walters
I get great satisfaction from my job. People often are very cynical about efforts to reduce drug use. This is largely because they hear the drum beat of self-interested pessimism from those that seek to legalize drugs. Having been to drug treatment centers all over the nation, I’ve seen the optimism and hope that those who overcome this disease convey. We’re seeing success at every facet of this broad effort. Prevention efforts have driven drug use down among teens, and thanks to Access to Recovery, more people are going to be able to get access to drug treatment. In addition to that, we are seeing historic declines in drug cultivation in Colombia thanks to our eradication efforts.

kristen, from arshall writes:
How do you think you can stop the druguses if some people go to the other side of the world to bring them over here and sell it, and then make a profit from it? You cant stop a crackhead from buying drugs. Some people mail it over here to the U.S.A. and it is an affect to our nation. What will you do about that? You cant check people mail because it is against the law.

John P. Walters
We seek to reduce drug use in two, balanced, ways. First, we try to prevent young people from starting and our recent survey results show this has been working with the 11 percent decline in teen use between 2001 and 2003. We also want to make sure that more of those who need treatment get it and move to recovery. The additional funds the President has sought will help more join the millions of Americans who are in recovery from addiction.

Finally, we are working to better attack the business of the drug trade. We have been making historic progress there in cooperation with Colombia and Mexico and in using new tools for domestic trafficking. The goal is not to rely on a single point of activity, but to better understand and attack the critical areas of those who sell poison to our children and profit from the addiction of our citizens.

Rex, from Chicago, IL writes:
Statistics indicate that kids are minimal consumers of illegal drugs. Most education programs seem to be focussed on them. Drug pushers know that the real money is from adults (kids from 10 or more years ago). Can more serious criminal penalties be imposed on drug users rather than just drug dealers. The dealers will go away if there are no users.

John P. Walters
Drug use starts by teens and pre-teens first trying illegal drugs. Our three decades of research and experience reveals that if use does not start during this period, it is unlikely to start later.

Today, of the roughly 7million Americans we need to treat because of their dependence or abuse of illegal drugs, 23 percent are teenagers.

Patricia, from Budd Lake, NJ writes:
Mr. Walters, AS head of National Drug Control Policy-can you please let me know how my son received steroids via Fed-Ex and our own US Mail when these injectable drugs are illegal in our country? I know they are legal on the sending end but not on our end. What is being done to stop this? My son paid the ultimate price for this as he died in his sleep on April 27, 2003 as a direct result of years of steroid use. My son was only 27 years old.

John P. Walters
I am very sorry to learn of your son's death. Please accept my sympathies. You remind us that drug abuse and the death and destruction can touch us all.

Earlier today, I joined the the DEA administrator, and FDA administrator, and the surgeon general in announcing a new series of steps to reduce the diversion of controlled substances. Among the steps are building public-private partnerships with businesses--including shipping firms, Internet access providers, and credit and other electronic payment providers--to counter the type of diversion that took you child's life.

I want to thank everyone who sent me an email and for those I was not able to answer, I hope to join you for another session soon. This has been a great opportunity to expand the conversion to more Americans. Thank you for what many of you are doing in your community to reduce the problem of illegal drugs in America.

I think it is obvious that this has been a nationwide trend over the last 20+ years. See Figure 22 : http://www.ussc.gov/r_congress/02crack/ch6.pdf

Now, this STRIDE data is suspect though. It can't be counted on 100% because of variances in the way data is collected and variances in the amounts of drugs seized from location to location. I have seen several government reports that talk about this. For instance, take a look at this section of a study commissioned by the ONDCP : http://books.nap.edu/books/0309072735/html/283.html#pagetop

Additionally, I can't find any recent data from the last three or four years. But from what I am seeing locally at least, prices are dropping precipitously. Locally, I know from cases I have worked that narcotics officers are paying around $600 a half ounce (14 grams) here and a couple of hundred for an eight ball (3.5 grams). Clients and other sources are telling me that $600 is too high for a half ounce now. People are buying eight balls for $150 all the time around here and supposedly the purity is really high. They're paying $60 a gram for the same stuff and people who know the right people can pick up a half ounce for $450 or $500. I had a client recently tell me he should have known something was wrong when the narc he sold coke to didn't balk at the $600 half oz price.

Back in the early eighties when I played around with this stuff a little we were paying $100 a gram for absolute crap that would barely numb your gums and $150.00 a gram for stuff that was not much better. I only bought the stuff a couple of times so I have no idea what they were selling larger amounts for around here in those days. But people I have known for over twenty years who still fool around with it a little tell me the stuff out there these days is way better and way cheaper than what we used to get.

People in law enforcement are also telling me cocaine prices at least in this region have been dropping, especially in the last couple of years. I talk to local narcotics officers and DEA agents pretty frequently. I just talked to a U.S. Customs agent out in Arizona yesterday. I get a pretty good idea about what's going on from talking to these folks, along with my clients, witnesses, and even some people I have known personally for many years.

"Any future reduction, IMO, will come from a reduction in demand due to social (peer) pressure, parental involvement, continued drug education, and an improved economy."

I agree with you here. But would add that also good drug treatment programs and involvement in drug court type program will also further reduce use of the more addictive drugs as will time. In time, as a drug like methamphetamine permeates an area, people start to see that it really is a bad drug. That drug in particular is just eating up small towns like my own. I think that people are starting to learn a hard lesson about it here. Use is still probably still on the rise, but as people watch people they know becoming addicted and falling apart on it more and more decide to steer clear of it.

I see so many in my office who really want to quit using it. I had a guy in my office today who broke down and cried about what that drug has cost him over the past couple of years. He's not even charged with a meth crime but he wants me to get him into drug treatment. The best I can do for him is try to get him into drug court. He's been offered a suspended sentence but he would rather go the drug court route because he knows he won't quit without the counseling, the support network, and of course the frequent drug tests which tend to keep people honest.

Believe it or not, so many of these people want to do the right thing. They aren't all as evil as people often tend to paint them. I wish people that seem to have such malice toward drug addicts and people who just fool around with drugs could know some of these people like I do and see that most of them are just everyday average people who don't mean any harm but who got involved with something stupid.

Actually, people in our drug court are required to attend at least three NA or AA meeting per week. One guy last at drug court this week said he went to fourteen meetings last week because he had a rough week. Our drug court uses a combination of treatments. At first, people go to three group meeting per week, and I believe each one has to meet with the drug counselor individually once a week. They also have to show up in court once a week, in addiction to the NA/AA meetings and for one to three drug tests each week.

Some of the people in drug court got there because they really wanted to be there. Most did it as a way to avoid prison, or because drug court is a way to have their felony records expunged in fifteen months. Most who are going to fail out do so within the first couple of months. The other seventy something percent make it through the fifteen month program. They learn pretty quick that they are going to either have to make a go of it or go to jail. Three in phase one were sentenced to jail terms for failing drug tests this week. One went for fifteen days because it was her second strike, the other two have to do two weekends. One guy last week went for thirty days on his first strike because they caught him trying to use someone else's urine on a test. It probably would have been worse for him if the drug counselor hadn't have put in a good word for him in our pre-court meeting and if so many of the drug court participants hadn't all spoken up for him during drug court. These people get tested so often that it is nearly impossible for them to continue to cheat throughout the program. Many cheat at first, because that's just the sort of thing drug addicts do, along with lying, rationalizing and so on. But when people are drug tested as much as these people are and their peers and the experienced probation officer and drug counselor are keeping an eye on them, most of them finally just give in and do right.

Our system seems to be working here. Actually, most of the people making it through the program seem surprisingly happy with it. They learn what is expected of them pretty quick. They know the judge 1) cares about them and wants them to make it, and 2) won't take any excuses and will put them in jail if they screw up. Also they know that if they keep a good attitude and try hard, do their homework assignments and cooperate, the probation officer and drug counselor will stand behind them and help keep them out of trouble if they happen to miss a meeting, have a brush with the law or whatever. The groups actually become pretty close. Drug court is fairly interactive and the participants are at least allowed to speak on each other's behalf if someone screws up. They provide a support net for one another and try to mentor the new kids.

I used to not believe in any sort of forced treatment. But what I have been learning is that for many if not most of these people, nothing else would work. And after they've been in the program a while and cleared the cobwebs out of their brains, many of them are genuinely glad that they were put in drug court. They'll make a speech when they graduate and tell the new folks they can make it and it will be the best thing they've ever done. Some of them come back to drug court sometimes to sit and watch and offer words of encouragement even after they are done and their records are expunged. Some help people in the program find jobs. I see a lot of them later and they tell me that they are grateful for having the opportunity to have completed drug court. Many believe it really helped them and they want to help other people.

Now, some of these people do end up going back to drugs. Some of them get busted again, no doubt about that. At this point there really isn't data available to see how successful the program is a getting people off of drugs in the long run. But, it is apparent that most of these people quit while they are in the program. Right here where the same temptations and triggers are, they learn to stay clear of people using drugs and live without the stuff for an extended period of time. That is the best thing about the program. These people, many of which have been getting high since they were young teenagers, learn that they can live life without drugs, even around here where drugs are everywhere. They get to see that they can have fun, satisfying lives without the stuff, and that is something many of them thought impossible before. The counseling and the program they work through probably helps many of them learn about themselves and addiction in general, but the frequent drug tests and knowing that cheating means jail forces them to sink or swim, and most of them swim.

So anyway, that attitude that you imagine most people in a program like this must have is not as prevalent as you think it must be. I think you would be pleasantly surprised with what you would see in our drug court. I've looked at a lot of these programs though and they are not all the same. Some of them are a joke. I will be pleading someone into a drug court program in another county next week. We work cases in other counties when there is a conflict of interest in representing co-defendants. I've sat and watched drug court there several times while waiting to do my pleas. I know people participating in the program and some who work in it.

Over there people are sometimes kept in the program even after failing a dozen drug tests. Often the only punishment people get for screwing up is that they have to sit in the "penalty box" (the jury section) during court. There is no interaction with the judge and the participants. People each go before the judge to talk about their progress while everyone else in the courtroom talks among themselves. There is no feeling of group adhesiveness, no feeling that these people are all in this together. It just seems like a way for the judges to put on the appearance that they are working on the drug problem while all they really are doing is diverting away some of the jail load and allowing attorneys to get good deals for their clients to justify their fees.

They are starting to change things in that other county though. From the reports I'm getting from the probation officer and drug counselor who work our drug court and also the other drug court, they are trying to make things work in the other county much like our drug court works here. And we didn't exactly invent the wheel here. We've been looking at what works in other parts of the country and other parts of the state and our system is constantly evolving.

This is an example that illustrates why I do not want a centralized government forcing a one size fits all approach on everyone. For one thing, different things will work in different communities, depending upon the size of the community, the make up of the population, the job situation, attitudes, etc. And these are complex issues we are dealing with for which there are no perfect solutions. We have a long way to go I believe the best way to get there is to allow communities to be free to innovate. That way we can all learn from each other and each community can develop systems that work better, fit their budgets, and fit better with local attitudes and desires. On top of that, it fosters pride and dedication that only comes when there is a sense of ownership in the programs and sense that these are community actions taken to resolve community problems.

"Interesting that the decline in prices yielded no increase in use."

I'm in the camp that does not believe that law enforcement efforts have much effect on supply or level of use of drugs. Casual users almost invariably are convinced that they won't get caught as long as they are careful. Addicts fear being caught worse than casual users, but they are addicts so will use anyway. Suppliers aren't deterred because there is so much money to be made. You might be deterred from being a cocaine dealer because you fear the legal consequences, but there will always be enough people willing to take their chances.

But I do think that price does matter with certain "attractive" drugs that are currently very expensive. Small drops in price won't affect use much. But cocaine is a very expensive drug, and large price drops would make a difference. I know the high cost was one of the main reasons I didn't fool around with that drug more when I was younger. It was easy to blow $25, $50, or even a $100 in a night with that stuff even for a casual user. Addicts can go through a lot more. Personally, I didn't have the money in those days to waste on high priced drugs (still don't). Most people don't. But if cocaine was $5 a gram for pure product you could buy at the store, things would be different. A lot more people would try it, and a lot of every once in a while users would start using regularly.

What I am not convinced of though is the ability of law enforcement to cause major increases in drug prices. Huge seizures do not seem to have any lasting effect on drug prices. Arrest and incarceration of dealers and drug runners appears to have little or no effect. There is a point at which further interdiction efforts are a waste of resources. We reached that point a long time ago but the powers that be have been successful in rallying the troops, telling us we are reaching "tipping points" in the war on drugs and conning us into expanding their budgets, throwing more good money after bad, and enabling them to make further inroads in what has been a concerted effort to break down our constitutional protections, in order to make drug war law enforcement efforts easier for the ever expanding army of police. I'd like to see us reach a tipping point in the battle against the formation of a police state.

There are other factors of course which can have a profound effect on the number of drug users. One is collective experience. I think this is what really turned the tide on cocaine use in the mid eighties. People saw the damage that cocaine was inflicting on their communities and on people they knew. They saw that basketball star, Len Bias, die as a result of using cocaine. They saw reports on TV of the crack epidemic ravaging inner cities and spreading to the suburbs. They heard about Richard Pryor catching his hair on fire while free-basing crack and learned of his problems with addiction. They saw that Less Than Zero movie where Robert Downey Jr's character was reduced to performing sex acts on other men to get cocaine. They saw the documentaries on yuppee cocaine use and saw how fortunes were evaporating because of use of the drugs, people were getting addicted, nasal passages collapsing, and people were dying. It lost much of the appeal it once had. Before it was looked at as the cool drug for successful people. It was touted as nonaddictive. I can even remember reading about it in Time magazine and seeing it painted in a fairly positive light as a nearly harmless social drug. But our collective experience as a society proved to us that cocaine was in fact a dangerous and addictive drug.

I was looking at some of the government statistics on perception of risk with regard to drugs. It's very interesting to see such a high perception of risk with a drug like heroin and how that correlates with the numbers of people using that drug. Contrasting this is a rather low perception of risk for marijuana and a correspondingly high percentage of people using it. It would be interesting to see risk perceptions for methamphetamine, but it does not appear that that data is being collected. I'd like to see how those numbers change over time as communities witness the destructiveness of that particular drug.

Twenty years ago cocaine was a status symbol for a lot of people. It reached the height of it's popularity in 1985. It was the cool thing to do. Pot, which had reached it's height of popularity in 1979, was looked at by many more as a drug for poor people. Remember that back then was the time of the Young Urban Professionals, Izod shirts with collars flipped up, Porches, and people named Muffy and Buffy.

And even though cocaine may have dropped considerably in price in the last twenty years, it's still expensive. You could still easily blow $25 to $100 on the stuff in one night of partying, along with what you would probably blow at the bar, especially since people on coke tend to stay up late and drink everyone else under the table. It's still way to expensive for the common man to use with any regularity without having some alternative and often illegal source of income.

Compare this to marijuana. There are expensive varieties out there now, but people tend to smoke less to get the desired effect. The report you cited says that the average price per gram of marijuana bought in amount less than ten grams is $9.11 per gram. Around here at least regular Mexican goes for less than $5.00 per gram if people buy quarter ounces, which usually go for about $30.00 here, give or take $5.00. We were paying $25.00 or $30.00 a quarter back when I was in college in the eighties. My roommate and I were pretty much daily smokers back then but we usually could make a quarter last all week. I might have been spending $20.00 per week on it back then tops. In the years after college I still smoked some, but it got to where a quarter ounce lasted me months. I know there are others spending a lot more on marijuana, but the average weekend pot smoker could easily get by on far less than $10.00 per week, whereas the average weekend coke user is liable to spend $50 to $100 or more per week. Cocaine may be cheaper than it was, but it's still far too expensive for most people.

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