Shi'ites Shed Blood in Powerful Iraq Ceremony

Reuters | 3/02/04 | Luke Baker

[xJones]

In the midst of the bleeding throngs, boys banged goatskin drums, clashed cymbals and blew horns to urge on the marchers in a ceremony banned for more than 30 years.

Kat, for all his paper-shredding ways, maybe Saddam knew those people better than us.

[kattracks]

True there are aspects of many religions that seem bizarre to those outside of those religions, but what I found interesting is that these people were able to practice their beliefs again after thirty years of suppression.

[dennisw]

	Iraqi Shiite Muslims hit their heads with swords during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day inside the Imam Hussein holy shrine in Karbala, Iraq , Tuesday March 2, 2004. Some Shiites consider the practice a testament to their devotion. To them, children, like adults, should take part in the rituals. Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims from around the world are gathering with Iraqis for the Shiite religious festival which marks the battle of year 680 A.D. in which Imam Hussein, the grandson of Islam's Prophet Mohammed, was killed. During the rule of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein , such rituals were banned in Iraq.(AP Photo/Hussein Malla) AP - Mar 02 1:06 AM
	An Iraqi Shiite Muslim hits his head with a sword during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day in Karbala, Iraq , Tuesday March 2, 2004. Some Shiites consider the practice a testament to their devotion. To them, children, like adults, should take part in the rituals. Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims from around the world are gathering with Iraqis for the Shiite religious festival which marks the battle of year 680 A.D. in which Imam Hussein, the grandson of Islam's Prophet Mohammed, was killed. During the rule of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein , such rituals were banned in Iraq.(AP Photo/Hussein Malla) AP - Mar 02 12:39 AM
	An Iraqi Shiite Muslim hits his bloodied head with his hand during the annual ritual to mark Ashoura Day in Karbala, Iraq , Tuesday March 2, 2004. Some Shiites consider the practice a testament to their devotion. To them, children, like adults, should take part in the rituals. Hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims from around the world are gathering with Iraqis for the Shiite religious festival which marks the battle of year 680 A.D. in which Imam Hussein, the grandson of Islam's Prophet Mohammed, was killed. During the rule of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein , such rituals were banned in Iraq.(AP Photo/Hussein Malla) AP - Mar 02 12:39 AM

[Cronos]

Hussein fought against the future Caliphs because he wanted to be Caliph. So it was a war of dynastic succession. But they call Hussein a martyr. huh???????

[Prodigal Son]

Explosions in Bagdad and possibly Karbala as well (breaking news)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1088913/posts

[dennisw]

Why would they not call Hussein a martyr? Seems logical to be.

[Cronos]

A martyr is someone who dies for his faith, not a person who dies while trying to become Die Fuehrer. By that token, Mark Antony was a martyr, so was Napoleon, so was hitler, so was Trotsky, etc.

[kcvl]

Re: Bombming

CNN is airing nothing but the IMAM screaming that the Americans did this. It couldn't have been Iraqis or Al'qaeda, it had to be the Americans.

[Zack Attack]

KERBALA, Iraq (Reuters) - In scenes of religious fervor, thousands of Shi'ite Muslims gashed the tops of their heads with swords Tuesday as they honored the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, grandson of the Prophet Mohammed.

Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I [am] the LORD.

Deu 14:1 Ye [are] the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

So thats what those scriptures mean.

[Salman]

bump

[Salman]

But they call Hussein a martyr.

Not Saddam. The other one. In fact Hussein is a very common name in the Arab world.

[Iris7]

I dunno, doesn't anybody else see that this is funny? How utterly goofy. What is really funny is those guys are taking themselves seriously! Put a bunch of them on Leno for a good laugh.

The wounds are trivial, blood loss is insignificant. Looks like about 100 milliliters in the photos I've seen. Won't even require stitches. Oh well, maybe it impresses the girls! (Bunch of real gross humor deleted!)

[Cronos]

Errr... I know it's not Saddam. I'm talking about Imam Hussein. I don't see why he should be called a martyr when he did not die for his faith, but died in a war of succession. A martyr is akin to the Christian martyrs who died for their faith

[Salman]

Errr... I know it's not Saddam. I'm talking about Imam Hussein. I don't see why he should be called a martyr when he did not die for his faith, but died in a war of succession. A martyr is akin to the Christian martyrs who died for their faith.

Sorry I misunderstood. But by Muslim standards that is a martyr, because he was claiming to be Muhammad's sucessor. As you know Islam is not like Christianity.

[tessalu]

What stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Cronos]

Well, a martyr by definition is someone who dies for his/her faith. It can be someone who dies for any religion. I don't see Hussein as having had any real dogmatic differences with the Caliphs, so he can't be a martyr.

[ScudEast]

Well, a martyr by definition is someone who dies for his/her faith.

It certainly is in the Christian tradition, and hence the English word "Martyr" has come to mean that. Not only that, but in the Christian tradition it also implies some kind of a choice - people choose to be martyrs for their faith. For example - someone who is offered the opportunity to recant their faith, but chooses to be faithful to their concience and is put to death as a result is a Martyr.

I had a look into it and apparently the word in Arabic (Shahid) which we translate as "Martyr" in the Islamic tradition allows someone who falls in battle against agressors to be one. It also carries no implication of choice - you can be a "martyr" by accident. Damn confusing, the same word in English used to describe two completely different things. In my opinion the difference is significant enough to be a mistranslation, and that we should use the word "Shahid" when referring to Islamic "martyrs".

[ZULU]

In Islam, religion and the state are the same.

[ZULU]

In many primitive societies, people would mutiliate their bodies in grief for the dead.

Some American Indian Tribes would remove digits. I guess this was a Middle Eastern Custom also that the Bible was speaking against.