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To: chuckles
"Its a small descrepency, but makes alot of difference. Jesus died for those that accept His sacrifice. If He died for all mankind, there is no need for Hell. He died for His sheep, His church, His people."

First, are you assuming salvation and redemption are equal terms?

I'm not sure this is the best way to state your idea. True, he died for me. But, did he die for me only b/c he knew beforehand I was going to one of his sheep?

Maybe a better way to say this is that all mankind has the chance, now, to turn to him, b/c he created the option via defeating Satan. It's up to us to exercise the option. Otherwise, his death is sold too easily as a mere doorbell event for only those he has chosen, as if he has sent out a specific set of invitations to a chosen few, and only those folks get to consider whether or not to RSVP.

Kind of muddled, but do you see where I'm headed?
82 posted on 03/02/2004 2:10:43 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon)
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To: gobucks
...."Kind of muddled, but do you see where I'm headed?"...

Yes, I know where you are headed. I hear it all the time from people that believe we have a weak God and twist the Bible verses to say what they want to hear.

He did know you would accept Christ, from the begining, your name was in the Book of Life. That is why Christians are against abortion. He knows the begining and the end. He knows who are His and who isn't. Do you believe that meeting God, you could resist Him? He is irresistable. He is God. He will have His way. There is no plan "B". If you are exposed, and don't come to Him, you are not His. Remember, He knows you and your thoughts. He created you. Why do some men resist? Because they haven't met Him, or they are not His. If you have an encounter(personal) with God, You will see Him in His glory and all things will change to new. Just hearing about Him doesn't do that. That is why miracle's happen every day in front of wittnesses, and it only affects some and not others. It was meant for those that were affected. The others say "What a coincidence!" When Jesus was asked why He spoke in parables, He replied that some may hear and understand. Why not all? Why did the Apostles just leave their jobs and families, without question? He knew who to ask! Judas was known from the foundation to be His betrayer.

There is not one word in the Bible that speaks of free will. The verse that applies here is the one that tells us not to judge, lest we be judged. He is not telling His people not to judge sin. The Bible is rife with verses saying to condemn sin, to hate sin, to run from sin. But we don't know who is His and who isn't going to heaven. He is judge, not us. What will surprise many is who is in heaven when they get there, and who isn't. I'm convinced there are preachers in hell and murderers in heaven, because the preacher never met Jesus, but was a pious, religious man, and the murderer met Jesus on their death bed.(AKA the thief on the cross). We cannot judge. Our job is to treat everyone as our brother( like ourselves), and preach the "Good News".(the great commission)

His people were the ones that were redeemed by His blood. If someone that isn't His was redeemed, then there is no need for hell. The Bible is plain that there are people condemned to hell. Ergo, someone wasn't redeemed. His blood doesn't cover them.

113 posted on 03/02/2004 11:16:55 PM PST by chuckles
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