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CA: Proposition 57 getting reluctant editorial support
Sac Bee ^ | 2/28/04 | AP - Sacramento

Posted on 02/28/2004 7:56:45 PM PST by NormsRevenge

Edited on 04/12/2004 6:06:24 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

SACRAMENTO (AP) - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's plan to borrow $15 billion to deal with the state's budget deficit is getting broad but often reluctant support from many of California's major newspapers.

"It's the least damaging way for California to begin to emerge from its fiscal abyss," said the Los Angeles Times in endorsing Proposition 57, the measure on Tuesday's ballot authorizing sale of the bonds.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002; editorial; getting; prop57; proposition57; reluctant; support

1 posted on 02/28/2004 7:56:46 PM PST by NormsRevenge
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To: *calgov2002; california
.
2 posted on 02/28/2004 7:57:36 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi Mac ... Support Our Troops! ... NO NO NO NO on Props 55-58)
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To: NormsRevenge
But the Chronicle faulted Schwarzenegger for not proposing a fallback option, a combination of budget cuts and tax increases to deal with the deficit

I fault him on it too...because I have been asked to choose without knowing the alternatives. I voted no to everything because I wanted to force hard choices but I may be very unhappy if I get my way.

3 posted on 02/28/2004 8:05:33 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: NormsRevenge
The Sacramento Bee said that the governor should have proposed a combination of tax increases and budget cuts to deal with the deficit instead of the bond measure

The Bee obviously doesn't read.

Schwarzenegger has proposed a 1/4% to 1/2% increase in the state component of the sales tax to support the bond sinking fund and purposed $3B annually in unspecified general fund cuts to offset the EFRA fund reductions.

4 posted on 02/28/2004 8:19:40 PM PST by Amerigomag
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To: liberallarry; Carry_Okie; calcowgirl; farmfriend
"...but I may be very unhappy if I get my way."

Whatever for, praytell???

5 posted on 02/28/2004 8:32:10 PM PST by SierraWasp (I'm in contempt of contemptuous liberal courts! We cannot have a Stable Society with their Rule!!!)
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To: SierraWasp
Whatever for, praytell???

A 15% across the board cut in Medical would force the closure of my local hospital. I wouldn't like that at all...and that's just one hypothetical.

6 posted on 02/28/2004 8:50:46 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
A 15% across the board cut in Medical would force the closure of my local hospital.

A 15% cut won't close any hospitals. Those hospitals will simply ask Medical patients to pay the 15%, as they rightfully should. If Medical patients can't afford the 15% co-pay I'd suggest they find another state where the pickings are better or look to their families for some help.

Hopefully our tax payer supported Saint Nicolas will pack his bags and leave California when the long over due structural reforms (read end of international welfare state) are implemented in California.

7 posted on 02/28/2004 11:33:03 PM PST by Amerigomag
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To: Amerigomag
A 15% cut won't close any hospitals. Those hospitals will simply ask Medical patients to pay the 15%, as they rightfully should. If Medical patients can't afford the 15% co-pay I'd suggest they find another state where the pickings are better or look to their families for some help

Emergency rooms are forced by law to take all comers regardless of ability to pay.
Emergency rooms lose money. Lots of it in rural areas where the patient count is low.
To survive hospitals try to be profitable in other areas. In ours it's the Skilled Nursing facility. That facility is kept afloat by Medicare. A 15% cut in Medicare reimbursal will make the SNF unit unprofitable and close the hospital (the patients and their families are too poor to make up the difference).
If the hospital closes all of Southern Inyo and Northern Kern will be without coverage. This will affect all travel along 395, all employment in the area (specifically DWP employment), all recreational use, and all local business.
Perhaps local area residents can make up the difference with local taxes...but Proposition 13 prevents the imposition of a realistic property tax.

Similar problems face hospitals everywhere. Perhaps everyone should move to another state where the pickings are better.

You, sir, are an ignorant ideologue.
Ideologue is simply a polite way of spelling idiot.

8 posted on 02/29/2004 8:46:36 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Amerigomag
...as they rightfully should

A very sizeable percentage of our emergency room patients are accident victims - people who don't live in our area and don't pay any direct taxes to support our hospital, work as volunteer directors or ambulance personnel, or contribute in any way to the welfare of our community besides eating in our restaurants and pissing in our toilets.

Shouldn't we make them pay more? Wouldn't it be right to charge what the market would bear, check for ability to pay at the scene of an accident, and kick the indigent non-residents onto the shoulder of the road?

How's that for a nice free-market solution, Mr. Pinchpenny?

9 posted on 02/29/2004 9:23:19 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
How was your hospital able to pay its bills in 1998, when the "Third World safety net" was in place? Spare us the apocalyptic rhetoric. A 13% across the board cut is very achievable in preference to this massive new debt load - but some illegal aliens, Sacramento educrats, and Democrat political hacks might have to take it in the shorts. There are too many freeloaders feeding at the trough (70,000 new state employees in the last five years), and Gray Davis invited most of them to do so. Since the voters have expelled him, Act II is to expel the political dependent class he brought with him.
10 posted on 02/29/2004 9:32:03 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Mr. Jeeves
How was your hospital able to pay its bills in 1998, when the "Third World safety net" was in place?

Our hospital went bankrupt in 1998 or thereabouts...and just got out of bankruptcy, barely. We are not alone. Hospitals are going bankrupt all over the country and have been for quite awhile.

Spare us the apocalyptic rhetoric

You want truth don't you? I'm giving it to you.

A 13% across the board cut is very achievable in preference to this massive new debt load - but some illegal aliens, Sacramento educrats, and Democrat political hacks might have to take it in the shorts

Spare me the ideological baloney and start facing facts.

There are too many freeloaders but many of them are probably your friends. A meat-ax, ideological approach won't solve the problem and could easily make it worse.

11 posted on 02/29/2004 9:46:37 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: NormsRevenge
"It's the least damaging way for California to begin to emerge from its fiscal abyss,"

California WILL NOT emerge from its fiscal abyss, no matter what is done.

Too much damage has been done. The companies that pay the people that pay the taxes are voting with their feet.

At the same time, the influx of illegals (who pay little or no taxes) continues to grow, always demanding (and getting) more social services.

It's FUBAR folks. Just a matter of time before someone actully comes out and pronounces the state DOA.
12 posted on 02/29/2004 9:50:10 AM PST by EEDUDE (Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.)
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To: liberallarry
A 15% cut in Medicare reimbursing will make the SNF unit unprofitable and close the hospital (the patients and their families are too poor to make up the difference).

The hospital will survive, just like it did from 1938 to the 1970's, because it will no longer be compelled have to provide services to folks who can't pay for them.

The folks how can't pay for the services will move on to an area where they are still welcome.

Perhaps everyone should move to another state where the pickings are better.

Nope just those who moved to California or moved to your neck of the woods and stayed because free medical services allowed them the luxury to stay in the boondocks and still receive municipal services.

I can remember what a quiet place the valley was before the LADWP moved in and stole the water. Do you know any DWP employees Larry?

I can remember when the high desert was a place for men and machines and then the hippies moved in to pursue their leisurely life style. Know any aging hippies who can't pay for their own medical care because they played most of their life instead of working?

Then low income retirees started showing up in their old Winnebago's to squat on government land when the temps were pleasant because they had a cheap internal medicine source just down the road to take care of their hypertension and painful joints. Know any retirees squatting on government land who are there because of the convenience of a nearby, free medical facility?

Then there was the development of Mammoth and Bishop Creek and the well to do kept right on driving at reckless speeds up 395 because they expected that medical services were available along the whole route. Do you see the cars going 75 mph up and down 395 without a care?

If the hippies and the bloomers and Los Angeles' wealthy would leave, Inyo Kern, Independence, Lone Pine, Bishop and Tom's Place will return to "normal" and free, taxpayer supported, medical care wouldn't be quite so essential anymore Larry.

You, sir, are an ignorant ideologue.

I may be a lot of things Larry but my only sin is that I've lived long enough to watch LA, the flower generation and boomers destroy the tranquility of the Owens Valley and free medical services are one of the instruments of a socialized government that has helped them do it.

So Larry, if you are a LADWP employee, or a displaced hippie or a boomer who has retired where the living is cheap, please pack your bags and go home.

13 posted on 02/29/2004 10:05:51 AM PST by Amerigomag
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Spare us the apocalyptic rhetoric

If you get stuck in some remote part of Death, Saline, Eureka, or other valley, you'll pay at least $1000 to get towed out.

That's reality.

Why can't we charge similarly for emergency medical service? It really is much, much more costly to deliver here than in populated areas.

14 posted on 02/29/2004 10:06:54 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Amerigomag
The hospital will survive, just like it did from 1938 to the 1970's, because it will no longer be compelled have to provide services to folks who can't pay for them

No. A hospital can downsize only to a certain point. Then it ceases to be a hospital.

Nope just those who moved to California or moved to your neck of the woods and stayed because free medical services allowed them the luxury to stay in the boondocks and still receive municipal services

You're only talking about the retired elderly. The situation is far more complicated...as you know.

I can remember what a quiet place the valley was before the LADWP moved in and stole the water.

No you can't. DWP moved in in 1903-5 and began "stealing" (that too is baloney) water in 1913.

Do you know any DWP employees Larry?

Yep.

I can remember when the high desert was a place for men and machines and then the hippies moved in to pursue their leisurely life style.

Wasn't very quiet then was it? Or do you characterize gun fights and rowdy drunkenness as quiet?

Know any aging hippies who can't pay for their own medical care because they played most of their life instead of working?

Yep.

Then low income retirees started showing up in their old Winnebago's to squat on government land when the temps were pleasant because they had a cheap internal medicine source just down the road to take care of their hypertension and painful joints. Know any retirees squatting on government land who are there because of the convenience of a nearby, free medical facility?

You really are an idiot. A good portion of the retirees live in the Alabama Hills and are quite well off. The welfare recipients are mostly young and - often as not - are descendents of long-time valley residents.

Then there was the development of Mammoth and Bishop Creek and the well to do kept right on driving at reckless speeds up 395 because they expected that medical services were available along the whole route. Do you see the cars going 75 mph up and down 395 without a care?

Now you're getting real - except that your class envy is showing. The people who are rushing up to Mammoth to ski are mostly middle-class white folk with a week-end off. And you greatly underestimate the stupid irresponsibility of their driving.

If the hippies and the bloomers and Los Angeles' wealthy would leave, Inyo Kern, Independence, Lone Pine, Bishop and Tom's Place will return to "normal" and free, taxpayer supported, medical care wouldn't be quite so essential anymore Larry.

It seems there's no end to your foolishness. L.A. give up Owens Valley Water? Ha!!! Mining and logging return? HaHa!!! Mammoth close? Hahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

I may be a lot of things Larry but my only sin is that I've lived long enough to watch LA, the flower generation and boomers destroy the tranquility of the Owens Valley and free medical services are one of the instruments of a socialized government that has helped them do it.

Nope. You're an ideological idiot and a lousy historian as well.

So Larry, if you are a LADWP employee, or a displaced hippie or a boomer who has retired where the living is cheap, please pack your bags and go home.

I'm not any of those things. I own my own home free and clear, built it myself out of cash, took quite a risk doing so since it's architecturally daring, require virtually no medical care (despite being partially crippled), serve as a volunteer director on the local hospital board, and consider this my home.

Can you claim as much?

15 posted on 02/29/2004 10:35:20 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Can you claim as much?

Yup ...plus family residency in the Bishop area since 1928.

16 posted on 02/29/2004 10:45:09 AM PST by Amerigomag
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