Highly Qualified Teachers Need Not Apply -- Bush is trying to weaken teacher credentialing

The New Jersey Teachers Union ^ | President of the NJ Teachers Union

[ladylib]

Public school has changed so much since I graduated from high school. Granted, we had a few poor teachers -- every organization has a few slackers, a few crazies, and a few people who shouldn't be around anyone, much less kids. The teachers spent their time teaching the subjects they were hired to teach, and for the most part they stuck to the script. They and the administration didn't try to usurp parents' authority or play mind games with their kids. If they ever tried, the parents would be down at the school in droves. Everyone knew where they stood. There was a line that students and teachers never, ever crossed.

Some of the stuff you hear about today can curl your hair.

[summer]

In my post #315 I meant to type: my post #309.

I still don't see you jumping for that job. :)

[summer]

RE your post #320 - ROTFLOMAO....BTW, it sounds like your daughter will do just fine. :)

[summer]

RE your post #320 - ROTFLMAO....BTW, it sounds like your daughter will do just fine. :)

[Amelia]

Just on a practical note, you'll have trouble getting rid of all the bad teachers until you find people to take their places.

I think the major problems probably are in the lower grades. Two types of people major in elementary education: those who really want to teach small children, and those who can't pass in any other major. The education schools really need to stop accepting the latter, and make their programs more rigorous. I've been in education classes with elementary education majors who couldn't do sixth grade math. Seriously.

Again, if you don't let those people in, you'll have to find others to fill the classrooms. There is a shortage of teachers now. Part of the problem is that so many other fields are open to women now, and part of the problem is poor discipline in the schools - part of that is the fault of the parents, part is the fault of the courts, and part is the fault of teachers and administrators.

Then again, there are people who like to have a job that lets them go to the bathroom whenever they need to, have more than 20 minutes for lunch, and take vacation when they want to, even if they don't get as much of it. There's also the point that, while teachers make a good wage on an hourly basis, it's the annual pay that determines what sort of house or car one can afford.

I have no problem with having teachers in junior high and high school major in their subject areas. I'm not sure what subject you'd want someone who planned to teach elementary schools to major in, other than elementary education, however. (By the way, in some private schools, the teachers aren't required to have college degrees. In the better ones, most if not all do.)

Here's the rest of what I'd do:

Based on conversations with teachers who do a great job of teaching reading, the best method is a combination of phonics and whole language, but I'd make sure students were reading well before they left first grade.

I'd get rid of touchy-feely politically correct reading material, and have students read literature, read about science, read about other countries, read about history. Big surprise to some educrats: you can learn about other subjects while you learn to read!

In the lower grades, I'd worry about skills and behavior, not self-esteem, and I agree with you on the value of drills and memorization for arithmetic. I'd get rid of calculators in schools, except perhaps for higher math, physics, and chemistry.

I'd get rid of the middle school concept - 6th graders would still be in elementary school, and 7th-9th grades would be junior high. After junior high, students who showed the interest and ability to go to college would go to academic high schools, the others would get minimal academic work, but some sort of vocational training.

I know they exist, but I've never been in a public school that did sexual health clinics or condom distribution, so I'm not worried about that. I think that must tend to be a community thing - if the community as a whole wants it or will put up with it, it happens.

I think Bible reading should be included in school, because I don't think a person can be fully educated in our country without a knowledge of the Bible, but I don't know that I want to lead prayers for my students, and there are people I wouldn't want leading prayers for my children. We don't have a large Jewish population in my area, but we do have Catholics, all sorts of Protestants, and Muslims - whose prayers would you use? I'd rather the students pray on their own.

What do you think?

[Amelia]

The students who are reading at a first and second grade level aren't necessarily in special ed. In fact, some of them have never been tested to figure out why they can't read, they've just been socially promoted.

That's why I think we need accountability.

[summer]

I feel like I'm bashing private schools here, but I really don't mean to do so, because as I said at the beginning of this thead, I support what GW is doing with this law the teachers union president is complaining about. Kids in failing public schools need teachers, and that's a fact.

But, funny, isn't it, that all GW is really doing now is exactly what Bill Clinton and Al Gore demanded for their own kids - teachers in a private school without certification (and obviously paid less than public school teachers), as explained here and below:

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3) NEA President Bob Chase asks why Gov. George W. Bush and Institute for Justice attorney Clint Bolick send their children to high-quality public schools but won’t allow poor parents that same "choice." He admits there are public schools that "middle class parents, including me, would not want their children to attend." For one thing, the "teachers in these high-poverty schools often lack certification."

Chase [the teachers union president] speaks from first-hand experience. Across the street from his "middle-class" condominium in Washington DC is one such school. The teachers at this poor, rundown neighborhood K-12 school often lack certification themselves. A recent job announcement for a 7th grade social studies teachers asked merely for "three years of classroom experience," with no mention of any type of certification. A secondary teacher of African history is promised only a "competitive" salary and needs only a graduate degree (not necessarily in the subject area) and three years of classroom experience. The head of the school’s math department is non-certified. These teachers are poorly paid compared to teachers in the better public schools, which is hardly surprising, since they are not represented by a labor union. These poor souls labor the day away at Sidwell Friends School, the alma mater of Chelsea Clinton, among others [including Al Gore III].

Translation: Let’s disguise the fact that our hand-picked choices for President in the last three elections have chosen schools with non-union, non-certified teachers over any other alternative.

[summer]

FYI, see my post #327.

[Coleus]

In fact, some of them have never been tested to figure out why they can't read, they've just been socially promoted. >>

that's why private schools are better.

[Coleus]

Students can pray on thier own or the class can read from the book of psalms since all christian, jewish and muslim faiths believe in the Old Testament. I liked what you had to say.

[summer]

that's why private schools are better.

No, that's why private schools are different. I know some private schools will actually have a child leave if the child can't keep up. And, what they will say to the parent is something like: "Your child is not really prepared for this school, so we no longer think it a good fit for your child." Public schools can't do that.

[summer]

But, what private schools will do with voucher kids from failing schools will be interesting, as the private schools accepting those students will want to keep those students. And, while some of those students will improve, some may not. But your assumption that "private schools are better!" under every circumstance is not quite correct. Some are better. Some are not.

[Amelia]

that's why private schools are better.

Some of them are, some of them aren't. But that's beside the point....these kids will never go to private school.

The type of parent who would send a child to private school would also have figured out the child wasn't reading and made sure something was done about it long before the child reached high school.

The type of parent who would send a child to private school would, when the teachers (finally!) figured out there was a problem, called a meeting to decide how to help the student, and invited the parents, SHOW UP. (In fact, the parent would have probably called the meeting instead of waiting for the teachers to figure out there was a problem and set up the meeting...)

[537 Votes]

Equating 'qualified' with 'quality' is of course a bugaboo. Good teachers are not made by college degrees or credentialing. Motivation is what makes good teachers.

[ladylib]

Why would they choose schools with non-union, non-certified teachers? Does Sidwell Friends have some kind of track record that Washington, DC, public schools don't?

Have you ever driven by Sidwell Friends? It is seedy looking. The average suburban high school with its manicured lawn is much nicer looking. I wonder what goes on in there. Why did Hillary and Bill choose it over a Washington, DC, public high school?

Why would my cousin's husband (an advisor and attorney in Clinton's White House) choose Sidwell Friends for his children's education? Just because he doesn't want them to go to Washington, DC, public schools? He marched for civil rights in the South in the 60's.

What is the selling point of Sidwell Friends? Why do
people want to send their children there? There has to be some reason.

[Eva]

And who do you suppose reccommended the strict licensing requirements for teachers and controls the material in the teaching textbooks. I am told that the first chapter that college students read in their teacher prep classes is all about the teachers' union and what it does for teachers.

I agree with Rod Paige, the NEA are domestic terrorists.

[summer]

I am told that the first chapter that college students read in their teacher prep classes is all about the teachers' union and what it does for teachers.

I do not recall that at all.

[summer]

What is the selling point of Sidwell Friends? Why do people want to send their children there? There has to be some reason.

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The headmaster was interviewed tonight on some tv channel, and it was mentioned in the interview that tuition is over $20,000 per year.

People mistakenly think "you get what you pay for" in education. But, you don't. As a parent, what you get for $20,000 at that school is: the right to brag your kid went to that school - which costs $20,000 in tuition. (And, your kid is out of the DC schools.)

[summer]

There were some kids in FL who went to private schools and did better in school; and, there are a lot more students in FL who do attend private schools due to the special ed vouchers.

But, you make a good point - the parents who are willing to go through the trouble of yanking their kids out are already more involved than many other parents will ever be.

[summer]

Does Sidwell Friends have some kind of track record that Washington, DC, public schools don't?

DC schools have a terrible track record.