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And FR is filled with posers like you who haven't been any closer to a battlefield than ROTC and the internet.

You just don't get it. You are supposed to apologize for the old lies that I caught you in, before you launch new ones.

There are enough FReepers who know who I really am. Some have even seen my "I love me" wall with all my awards and junk. Some were even there when I got some of them. And, sorry, never was in ROTC. Hey, maybe you were one of the "outside agitators" who burned the building down at Kent State?

You can bash me as much as you like, but you have not defended, retracted or supported the falsehoods in your inital post. You're the one who started this by posting a childish, petulant rant about how you were unimpressed with others quoting the Kay report, of which you still appear innocent of any understanding. Of course, you threw in a few DNC-inspired pokes at the Administration. Hey, if you hate Bush and Cheney, you'll love Kerry and Graham or whomever. It's a free country and you can vote for them, if you're registered. Or you can write in Pat or Franco or whoever you guys like.

You're wrong about the Kay report, and I showed you exactly where you were wrong. You've always been welcome to cite evidence backing up your positions, but you haven't. We both know that you can't, because your positions are unsupported by any evidence. You know they are, because you made them up on the spot.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

"You can bash me as much as you like, but you have not defended, retracted or supported the falsehoods in your inital post."

Ok CN18F, I'll try to restate my premise, that the US did not find WMD's in Iraq.

1. "A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research."

According to the U.S. Department of Defense, more than ten countries have, or are developing biological warfare programs. According to the Office of Technology Assessment and U.S. Senate committee hearings, the number is about 17 and includes: Russia, Israel, Egypt, China, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria and North Korea.

It doesn't suprise me, nor should it have surprised Kay, that the inspecters found equipment that COULD be used for CBW research, frankly I'm amazed they haven't found more.

2."A prison laboratory complex, POSSIBLY used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN." "Additional information is beginning to corroborate reporting since 1996 about human testing activities using chemical and biological substances, but progress in this area is slow given the concern of knowledgeable Iraqi personnel about their being prosecuted for crimes against humanity."

Is this really some kind of earth shaking statement? It's well known that Saddam is/was a madman that gassed his own people and tortured prisoners, political enemies and their families.

3."New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN."

If you've been keeping up with current events it's apparent that anybody can produce ricin, so that's a no starter. Was the research on CCHF and aflatoxin on paper or were the Iraqi's actually producing bioweapons? I'm waiting to find out, but I won't hold my breath.

4."Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons."

Because many of these reference strains were originally acquired from the good old USA itself, I don't find this surprising.

5."Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS)".

Read this sentence closely, it says nothing. What type of equipment? How many different types of equipment are "useful" for the enrichment of uranium? How many are dual use or used in other types of research?
What kind of documents? Your local library has documents that could be "useful" for determining how to enrich uranium.

6."A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit."
"Kay's people saw, touched, and photographed the actual UAV's -- not plans. Yet you accuse them of fantasizing... that's rich."

OK, you got me on this one. I didn't know they had produced prototypes. I found the statement interesting in that, apparently, it's quite alright and perfectly acceptable for them to develope and test UAVS with a range of 150km or less. Big surprise, the iraqis cheated. Earth shaking indeed.

7. "The scientists discussed the development of improved, simplified fermentation and spray drying capabilities for the simulant Bt that would have been directly applicable to anthrax, and one scientist confirmed that the production line for Bt could be switched to produce anthrax in one week if the seed stock were available."

Well, err, yes. According to the U.S. Department of Defense, more than ten countries have, or are developing biological warfare programs. Which country should we go to war with next Russia, Israel, Egypt, China, Iran, Libya, Syria or North Korea?

8."The scientist who concealed the vials containing this [biological] agent has identified a large cache of agents that he was asked, but refused, to conceal. ISG is actively searching for this second cache."

OK. I'm waiting, but not holding my breath.

9. "there are approximately 130 known Iraqi Ammunition Storage Points (ASP), many of which exceed 50 square miles in size and hold an estimated 600,000 tons of artillery shells, rockets, aviation bombs and other ordinance. Of these 130 ASPs, approximately 120 still remain unexamined. As Iraqi practice was not to mark much of their chemical ordinance and to store it at the same ASPs that held conventional rounds, the size of the required search effort is enormous."

Like the Kay team didn't know this before starting the search? Was this some great secret? Hardly. And yes, I'm sure Kay IS hoping something turns up, because there sure as heck isn't any smoking gun in the rest of his report.

10. U.S. forces discovered seven pounds of cyanide.

If you have a delivery and disbursal system cyanide in its various forms can be considered an area effect weapon, just like cluster bombs, multiple launch rocket systems, and aircraft ripple bombing. While cyanide might be useful for killing clustered civilians it is far less effective against combat forces equipped and trained for chemical weapon attacks.

By invading Iraq the US has established an American footprint square in the middle of the radical islamic countries. With the availability of ports in the south of Iraq as well as air support all the way to Turkiye in the north, we now have the capabilities to strike anywhere in the mideast, without having to resort to our "arab allies".
I don't have the slightest problem with this. I DO have a problem with the administration blowing smoke up our rears and after reading Perle and Frum's book I am starting to believe this is the case.