[Criminal Number 18F]

There are a lot of resources at the Carnegie Endowment here. The actual Kay report, or Kay's public, unclassified speech on it, to which I will make many references, is here [cia.gov].

You said, repeatedly:

Im waiting.

1. First, there is an apostrophe in "I'm." Illiteracy is always unimpressive. Illiteracy joined with petulance is indicative of childish thinking. No one respects childish thinking -- even children are expected to outgrow it.

2. Second, nothing in life is accomplished by whining and waiting for people to bring things to you. Stop acting like a welfare leech and go get them yourself -- works for the rest of us.

Now, let's look at some of the particulars that "ScreamingFist" wants delivered with his welfare check, dope, Twinkies, and lottery tickets:

• network of laboratories
  Verbatim from Kay's Interim Report [cia.gov]: "A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research."

  Hot tip: intelligence agencies don't run aspirin manufacturing.

• "prison laboratory"
  Verbatim again: " A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN." And elsewhere in the report, the chilling implication that the Iraqis didn't just have this facility, but that they used it: "Additional information is beginning to corroborate reporting since 1996 about human testing activities using chemical and biological substances, but progress in this area is slow given the concern of knowledgeable Iraqi personnel about their being prosecuted for crimes against humanity."

• "new research in... biological weapons"
  Verbatim from Kay: "New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN."

• "Actual live biological weapons"
  Verbatim: "Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons."

  I understand that words are too much for welfare-dependent children, so here's a picture of 97 vials of biological agents seized from a scientist's home -- and here's the source document [both cia.gov]. Exactly as described in the letter... still waiting? Yeah, probably....

• "Documents and equipment to develop nuclear weapons"
  You dismiss this as "your local library. Order off internet." That's really deep thinking... not. Here's what Kay actually said: "Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS)". Pull your head out of your fourth point of contact, and look up centrifugal uranium enrichment on the net. Then order some of the equipment... Get it through your skull that this is not a high school science lab we're talking about here.

• "Specially developed airplanes, designed to spray anthrax out of a small device on the underside of the plane."
  To which you said: Spare me, I can draw anything on paper and call it a plan. First, I doubt you could plan much of anything, on paper or otherwise. But the Iraqis could. What Kay actually said about the UAVs was: "A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of  500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit." And elsewhere, more detail: " two UAV programs that were working in parallel, one at Ibn Fernas and one at al-Rashid Air Force Base. Ibn Fernas worked on the development of smaller, more traditional types of UAVs in addition to the conversion of manned aircraft into UAVs....All these systems had declared ranges of less than 150km. Several Iraqi officials stated that the RPV-20 flew over 500km on autopilot in 2002...Additional work is also focusing on the payloads and intended use for these UAVs.... Iraq's interest before the Gulf War in attempting to convert a MIG-21 into an unmanned aerial vehicle to carry spray tanks capable of dispensing chemical or biological agents, attention is being paid to whether any of the newer generation of UAVs were intended to have a similar purpose. This remains an open question." Once again the Kay report backs up the letter writer and makes you look stupid -- at least according Forrest Gump's Mama's stupidity test. Kay's people saw, touched, and photographed the actual UAV's -- not plans. Yet you accuse them of fantasizing... that's rich.

• "several vials of live biological weapons that could be used to replicate and mass produce toxins to kill humans "within one week."
  Your reply is again the petulant-baby "Im waiting." Waaaah. Well, here's Kay verbatim again: "The scientists discussed the development of improved, simplified fermentation and spray drying capabilities for the simulant Bt that would have been directly applicable to anthrax, and one scientist confirmed that the production line for Bt could be switched to produce anthrax in one week if the seed stock were available."

• "Saddam could have ordered...his military to spray such toxins ... with only one week's notice!"
  Your dishonest whine, of which I'm now really, really tired: "The airplanes that don't exist? Right." I've already pointed out that Mr Kay's team saw the actual UAV's, not plans. Just cause you're a phony without accomplishments in the physical world, don't assume everyone else is. Do yourself a favor, and look things up... or get someone to do it for you.

• "the scientists caught holding these weapons ... admitted that there were large stockpiles of such weapons....."
  You respond with a smart-ass: "Sure they did. Well, here's what the cautious Kay said: "The scientist who concealed the vials containing this [biological] agent has identified a large cache of agents that he was asked, but refused, to conceal. ISG is actively searching for this second cache.".

• "Additionally, David Kay estimates that out of Iraq's 130 known storage sites, only 10 have been properly searched."
  You reply in the non-sequitur of the week: "Then why did Kay come back and say there are no weapons?" As the complete report documents, he didn't say that at all. You are the one saying it. And in the face of the evidence. Here's what Kay said: "there are approximately 130 known Iraqi Ammunition Storage Points (ASP), many of which exceed 50 square miles in size and hold an estimated 600,000 tons of artillery shells, rockets, aviation bombs and other ordinance. Of these 130 ASPs, approximately 120 still remain unexamined. As Iraqi practice was not to mark much of their chemical ordinance and to store it at the same ASPs that held conventional rounds, the size of the required search effort is enormous." Once again, the letter writer's veracity is proven, and yours is ... not.

• The story reports, "U.S. forces discovered seven pounds of cyanide
  Your response to this: Cyanide is NOT a weapon of mass destruction. It is good for killing prisoners in jail cells. Well, this tells me another detail about you -- you're not a vet. The entire class of chemical weapons known as blood agents (particularly Hydrogen Cyanide, AC in the military chem agent code, and Cyanogen Chloride, CK) are cyanides. (See US Army Field Manual 3-9, US Navy Publication P-467, US Air Force Manual 355-7, "Potential Military Chemical/Biological Agents and Compounds," December 12, 1990, chapter 2, p. 26). A particular problem with AC is that it can penetrate American gas masks. Other cyanides are easily converted into these cyanide weapons, for example, mercuric cyanide is often used in shells with a reagent that will cause it to form AC when the shell is detonated. For a little more on this see the OSD's Gulf War Glossary.

More recently, talking to Congress, Kay said of the Iraqi nuclear program, "They started building new buildings, renovating it, hiring some new staff and bringing them together. Fortunately -- and they ran a few physics experiments, re-run -- re-ran experiments they had actually run in the '80s. Fortunately from my point of view, Operation Iraqi Freedom intervened, and we don't know how or how fast that would have gone ahead."

I guess we could have waited for proof. Just like people like you convinced Clinton to let Bin Laden go, let's wait for proof -- which Bin Laden provided, in due course.

I don't expect I got through your thick skull. I really just posted this for the other people who are in this thread. You've made it clear that you are too lazy to find read the documents, which are a click away, and possibly too stupid to understand them if you did. "Waaaah! Im waiting. I need the comic book version... too many words!"

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[ScreamingFist]

"First, there is an apostrophe in "I'm." Illiteracy is always unimpressive. Illiteracy joined with petulance is indicative of childish thinking. No one respects childish thinking -- even children are expected to outgrow it.

Second, nothing in life is accomplished by whining and waiting for people to bring things to you. Stop acting like a welfare leech and go get them yourself -- works for the rest of us.
Now, let's look at some of the particulars that "ScreamingFist" wants delivered with his welfare check, dope, Twinkies, and lottery tickets:"


LOL, that's about all I need to read to know your opinion isn't worth diddly, and that you're nothing more than a petulant little girl throwing a temper tantrum.

[ScreamingFist]

"Well, this tells me another detail about you -- you're not a vet"

Not everyone is so arrogant that they feel the need to advertise their service to the country on their about page.
Read through your all inclusive list and show me the "eminent threat" that Kay was sent to find, that IS the reason we went to Iraq, and your huffing and puffing and juvenile insults don't change that fact.