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Rocky Mountain Gun Owners Alert: Kill 1805 Immediately
Rocky Mountain Gun Owners ^ | 02/26/04 | Rocky Mountain Gun Owners

Posted on 02/27/2004 7:54:46 AM PST by Copernicus

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To: skip2myloo
You make a lot of valid points, too.

I'm sure I would have preferred S.1805 without the Boxer/Kohl amendment, but now that it's attached, I'm just not sure that amendment alone is enough reason to kill all of S.1805.

Any Ammo ban amendment or AWB extension amendment would definitely be a deal killer.

I'm not so sure about the Boxer/Kohl gun locks amendment. I would have preferred to wait until there was an obvious need for the type of protection that this amendment provides to gun owners, and I'm not sure the tradeoff of requiring dealers to provide locks with handguns was necessary. On the other hand, now that this amendment is part of the Senate version of the bill, I'm not sure it's worth killing the whole deal to get rid of it.

Perhaps it would be best to wait and see on this issue until S.1805 either passes or fails, and if it passes with this amendment, work hard to keep it out of the House version and get it removed in the conference committee.

Mostly, I was pointing out that this particular amendment is quite complex and not completely "anti-gun" as it is often presented. And, like I said before, there has been a lot of misinformation about this particular amendment in the past few days, mostly aimed at inflaming emotions and trying to get pro-gun individuals to seriously harm their own credibility when they contact their Senators.

skip2myloo wrote:
Now, here's a thug that's committed 4 serious felonies, and they're gonna come get me as an accessory to murder because I didn't have my gun secured "properly" with some $6.95 Master Lock ?? To me, that's just insane.
Actually, "they" aren't going to come after you with criminal charges. What could potentially happen is that a victim or victim's survivor might come after you in a civil lawsuit.
skip2myloo wrote:
I'll still have to defend myself and possibly still lose because I can't prove I was in compliance with Boxer/Kohl.
Since it would be a civil case, and "they" would be the plaintiff, "they" should have to bear the burden of proof to prove that the gun was unlocked when it was stolen/used without your permission.
141 posted on 02/29/2004 10:08:44 AM PST by cc2k
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To: cc2k
"I'm sure I would have preferred S.1805 without the Boxer/Kohl amendment...

"Perhaps it would be best to wait and see on this issue until S.1805 either passes or fails..."

You and I are in violent agreement :)

142 posted on 02/29/2004 10:17:17 AM PST by skip2myloo
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To: Monty22
The scary thing is, Fiendswine promised to attach the AWB on ANYTHING she can, so if this fails, she'll keep going on it

Thank you. I think I now can see what's going on. This is a grand chess game, and I think I can see the endgame.

This is all about the AW ban, not the industry protection bill.

Schumerstein and Kennedy (actually, Soros and McKelvey, in reality) will become more and more desperate as the time for the AW ban to expire gets closer and closer. As long as S.1805 is still sitting somewhere with their precious gungrab still attached to it, they're going to have to push for the gungrab as attached to S.1805. If S.1805 leaves the Senate without antigun amendments - and in particular the AW ban - Fiendswine will sit there hammering the Senate to death, shrieking like a banshee, making it impossible to get any work done. (Yes, they should just stand up to the vile old harpy - but they don't have that kind of backbone; we've got the same shituation here in Oregon where a similar piece of Commie trash, Sen. Ginny Burdick (here unaffectionately known as "Burdbrain"), held the entire Legislature hostage last session, squealing and squawking until they agreed to allow her pet anti-gun bill a hearing).

So in a sense, rather than S. 1805 being poisoned by the AW ban (assuming it gets attached), the AW ban is going to end up getting poisoned by S. 1805 - because even if there is *no* action on industry protection, the AW ban *will* expire all by its filthy little self, if we can manage to play out the clock.

Meanwhile, as long as Craig and NRA and etc. appear to be dealing in earnest, and S. 1805 with all sorts of verminous gungrab amendments is festering in some committee somewhere, Schumerstein & Co. won't be able to get any traction in polluting any other legislation with the AW ban, no matter how loud they squeal - their RINO "Colleagues" will be able just point to the "Stalled" legislation, shake their heads in sympathy, and insist that "we have to move on"...

My guess is NRA has no expectation whatsoever of S. 1805 passing. They expect to continue negotiating and haggling over it until the AW ban expires, and then let it die in committee.

Meanwhile, all the good Senators can go on apace, smiling for the camera, issuing press releases, and appearing on Face the Commie-entator or whatever, while Clinton's precious piece of tyrannical bilge (for which it said it would give up its Presidency, if I remember correctly, back when the House PASSED a REPEAL of the AW ban) dies its well-deserved death, twisting slowly, slowly in the wind...

Then, next session, after we've thrown a few more Communists out of the Clowngress, we will ram the Industry Protection bill through - and Schumerstein, Soros & Co. will not have *nearly* as much to bargain with...

I'm not saying I approve of this strategy, or that I approve of NRA approving of it (if they do in fact approve of it), or that we shouldn't try to get S.1805 through without amendments, or that we shouldn't keep calling the Senate until all the bars in DC run out of liquor and all the drugstores run out of Xanax - I'm just saying I think I can see what's going through whatever it is they have that passes for minds, up there in the rarefied atmosphere of Wastington...

143 posted on 02/29/2004 8:21:53 PM PST by fire_eye (All leftists look the same through an ACOG.)
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To: fire_eye
On some other sites; packing.org, vcdl.org and others, there is discussion that today (Monday) Schumer, Feinstein and my RINO Warner of Virginia, will co-sponsor an Amendment to S. 1805 that renews the AWB.

I fully expect such a proposal will be offered.

The question is, how will it fare ??

We shall see.

144 posted on 03/01/2004 1:17:17 AM PST by skip2myloo
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To: reloader
Support the NRA, there is strength in numbers

I am a voting member of the NRA and have sent them contributions over the years. I am a "silver bullet" member sponsor.

I also associate with and respect the 75 Million American 2nd Amendment Supporters who DO NOT belong to the NRA.

Sadly, I believe the NRA "speaks" for the 2nd Amendment Community in much the same way Jesse Jackson "speaks" for the Black Community- in a top-down, we know what is best for you,misguided patronizing way.

We are buried in experts who have answers to everything and solutions to nothing.

The NRA, particularly the NRA-ILA, has been infiltrated by these experts who fix things that aren't broken until they are ruined beyond repair.

It is time for the vast overwhelming majority of the 75 million other 2nd Amendment Defenders to stop these quislings who destroy rights in the name of their salvation.

I will instruct my representatives (again) to vote for a completely "clean" 1805 or shut it down.

Zero tolerance and all that.

Best regards,

145 posted on 03/01/2004 5:50:37 AM PST by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: fire_eye
You need to focus more on S.1805. It's already had a cloture vote (last Thursday? Maybe Wednesday). What's happening between now and Tuesday, March 2 is all the debate and amendments that there will be on S.1805. At the end of that, at the end of the day tomorrow, March 2, there will be an up or down vote on S.1805 and it will either pass or fail.

If you want to express opposition to any of the controversial amendments, fax or call your Senators today (or tomorrow morning at the latest). S.1805 isn't going to keep kicking around in committee (unless S.1805 is voted down, then another nearly identical version might come up).

Feinstein's AWB and Craig's ammo ban amendments will be voted on tomorrow. After that, S.1805 will be voted on. The clock is running very quickly on this bill.

146 posted on 03/01/2004 5:53:19 AM PST by cc2k
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To: glock rocks
well, is yer common .223 considered "armor piercing" yet?

.22 rimfire magnum is.

147 posted on 03/01/2004 3:52:42 PM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
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To: Copernicus
I will instruct my representatives (again) to vote for a completely "clean" 1805 or shut it down.

Zero tolerance and all that.

I appreciate your position and support, not identical to my own, but certainly parallel.

Either S.1805 goes, or I no longer recognize the legitimacy of any constitutional authority. The United States is over and done with.

148 posted on 03/01/2004 3:55:18 PM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
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To: Copernicus
"...previously on 25..."

>>Petro45acp>> Call your congresscritter. Pass the Gun Manufacturers Protection Bill without any amendments or kill it 'daid.'

>>Copernicus>> Which is pretty much what the conventional Internet wisdom seems to be: a "clean" (no amendments whatso ever)bill or no bill!

>>>>>>>I would say the folks at the NRA-ILA have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar once again.

Best regards,

With regards to the last statement, "Boy Howdy did they get caught!!!!" Here is some text from a note I received this morning. The organization is the Virginia Citizens' Defence League (VCDL), a state "grass roots" organization trying to protect the gun-rights of all Virginians.

The Legislation in question is Virginia Senate Bill SB660. Among other things, in its recent form, it would ban any firearms, all ammunition, and blades from checked baggage in Virginia airports. No CCW (Va has CHP) allowed even in non-sterile areas of the airport. A total bone-job!

The hitch is an NRA rep has apparantly helped write the thing. See the following text

"And it gets WORSE, much worse- the NRA representative, Dawson Hobbs,
stood up in committee and admitted that the NRA HAD A HAND IN THE
DRAFTING of SB660!!! Yes - the NRA help craft one of the worst
gun-control bills Virginia has had in a long time. Dawson Hobbs said
that the NRA wanted Virginia to have uniform laws for airports.
Great - now we can't carry at all and can't bring ammunition or
hunting knives in our checked luggage - but the law is uniform! Yes.
Uniformly BAD."

Information on VCDL can be had at http://www.vcdl.org

Their legislative tracking tool is a great way to keep track of the tools (our beloved congresscritters)!

Cheers,
Pete

149 posted on 03/02/2004 10:55:41 AM PST by petro45acp ("The terrorists don't "win" by keeping you from normal daily life, but by killing the infidel")
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