[Qwinn]

Back up. He asked a question. How about you answer it first?

See, one thing that's been going on is that a lot of the critics of the movie are claiming that Jews had -nothing- to do with Christ's death, that it's a complete fiction. That's total revisionism.

I don't think "the Jews killed Christ". I do believe Jews killed Christ, though. Just like some Romans did. I went on about 15 posts on another thread the other day pointing out the difference, and how ridiculous it is to extend guilt down generations.

But you know what, samtheman? Have you heard anyone, -anyone-, utter a protest when someone blames all Christians for the Holocaust? Or all Christians for the pogroms? That happens constantly, in the major media, every single day. Over and over. THAT is just as much blood libel. And no one says a word.

My rant on that other thread was about how ridiculous the notion of laying guilt on an entire group is, AND that it is -hardly- limited to the Jews. Christians get it constantly.

And isn't the entire fury at Christians right now just another symptom? The people criticizing this film RIGHT NOW are acting as if the majority of Christians conducted pogroms in their youth and haven't come to grips with their guilt yet.

Now you tell me, how the HELL is blaming all Christians for the pogroms of 2 centuries ago ANY different from blaming ALL Jews for killing Christ? Yet, in these rants and screams about fears that Christians are going to watch this movie and conduct another pogrom, isn't that EXACTLY what they're doing?

I'll wait on an answer for that.

And by the way, I'm not Christian, I'm agnostic.

Qwinn

[xsmommy]

another analogy is to include blaming all whites for slavery. my grandparents all came from eastern europe, but there will be those lunatics who claim that merely being white makes one culpable for slavery. there are lunatics of every stripe. it is not the majority or even a significant MINORITY view of anyone.

[samtheman]

But you know what, samtheman? Have you heard anyone, -anyone-, utter a protest when someone blames all Christians for the Holocaust? Or all Christians for the pogroms? That happens constantly, in the major media, every single day. Over and over. THAT is just as much blood libel. And no one says a word. My rant on that other thread was about how ridiculous the notion of laying guilt on an entire group is, AND that it is -hardly- limited to the Jews. Christians get it constantly. And isn't the entire fury at Christians right now just another symptom? The people criticizing this film RIGHT NOW are acting as if the majority of Christians conducted pogroms in their youth and haven't come to grips with their guilt yet. Now you tell me, how the HELL is blaming all Christians for the pogroms of 2 centuries ago ANY different from blaming ALL Jews for killing Christ? Yet, in these rants and screams about fears that Christians are going to watch this movie and conduct another pogrom, isn't that EXACTLY what they're doing? I'll wait on an answer for that. And by the way, I'm not Christian, I'm agnostic.

I was on my way out the door and read this (I have cable modem, always on line, it's great) and I had to stop to respond.

There is NO difference between blaming all Christians for pogroms and blaming THE Jews for "killing Christ". I agree with you 1000% percent (in the words of McGovern!). And I agree with you in basically everything you are saying. I'm just taking a slightly different tack here, emphasizing a slightly different aspect of all this. We are not in disagreement about any of this, except on the emphasis that I want to put --- at this point in time --- in denouncing those who say that somehow the Jewish people are somehow "guilty" for the crucifixion.

You are very right. Group guilt is stupid. I didn't own slaves, I didn't pogrom Jews and I didn't kill Christ (except in the spiritual sense that he died for my sins).

I hate group guilt, except when it's justified. The silence of Islam on terrorism is a case when it comes close to being justified. And I want to make darn sure we are not guilty --- as a group --- of the same thing. That's all. We're on the same side.

And now I really do have to go.

[HostileTerritory]

Have you heard anyone, -anyone-, utter a protest when someone blames all Christians for the Holocaust?

That's a ridiculous straw man. No one who gets listened to by ANYBODY makes a claim like that. You're ginning up nonsense to create some false sense of equivalency.

[Matchett-PI]

"And by the way, I'm not Christian, I'm agnostic."

Where do your rights come from, then? If they're granted to you by other men (temporal government), please explain to the rest of us how you would legitimately/logically claim that your rights are unalienable.