Photo from "The Passion"

CNN ^ | 2/24/04 | Icon Productions

[Robert Teesdale]

I can't wait to see the film. Anyone who thinks that being put to death by the Romans was a clean, well-groomed exercise in peaceful passing to the next world, is an absolute idiot.

I suspect that people who complain that the movie is too violent, are somewhat ignorant of the facts of life. I want to ask them, what do you think you'd look like after a few hours of scourging and crucifixion?

[geopyg]

"But a Holy God separated himself from Jesus, withdrew His comforting presence from His Son, because Jesus was polluted with sin, our sins, as He hung on that cross."

---Scripture please.----

1Peter 2:24 (with some lead in from 2:20 that seems pertinent to this thread)

For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

He commiteed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.

When they hurled insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. He himself BORE OUR SINS IN HIS BODY ON THE TREE, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.


---- Christ is often called the lamb - and numerous other references as a sacrifice. I believe the whole idea of sacrifice from the Old Testement is that the sins of the person where dumped on the lamb (or "scape goat") or whatever the person could afford, and offered to God as a purification of sin.

I don't have a handy reference to Jesus "descended into Hell" in my Bible reference. I imagine it comes from the idea that the whole concept of sin is seperation from God. There are references to unrepentent sinful people suffering in hell (even angels - 2Peter, 2:4). So its not a huge step for me to believe that Jesus was seperated from God until he rose from the dead. He told Mary not to touch him as he had not yet ascended to the Father.

Not sure what heaven, Hell, death, etc. are all really about. And although I think the end game is important, I'm still young enough that I think what is important is how I live my life.

[longtermmemmory]

Why is hollywood really really really really pissed?

They did not think of it first. They could have just done a bloody Jesus Christ movie and cashed in. They could have tweeked the script but the gore is marketing genius. (/s)

[calawah98]

The man that plays Jesus, was raised in Mt Veronon, Wash. My Town. HIs folks still live here.
He said, he had a protective mat on his back to take care of the whip, but several times the guys striking him missed, and he felt the whole brunt of the whip striking him. He said the pain took his breath away, he could not breathe. He dislocated his shoulder, packing the cross, which weighed 150 pounds. He took a beating doing the movie, but was glad he got the chance to portray Jesus.
He is a devout Catholic, Mary is a Romanian Jew.

[AppyPappy]

Yes but there is no reference to God separating or divorcing Himself from Jesus while he was on the Cross. I have seen no Scriptural evidence of God ever abandoning Jesus.

[DainBramage]

When Jesus asks "My God my God, why have thou forsaken me" it could be assumed God had turned away could it not?

[AppyPappy]

Jesus was invoking a Psalm. It was common among rabbis to refer to Psalms by their first sentence since they weren't numbered. Read the Psalm and you will know why he invoked that one.

1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel.
4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD ;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.
10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

19 But you, O LORD , be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD , praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him-
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD ,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him-
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn-
for he has done it.

[DainBramage]

Jesus was invoking a Psalm.

Unless you have scripture reference to back that up I disagree. It doesn't make sense.

No one said God turned away from Jesus for good, but He did not use the power at his disposal to save His son from this horrible death, as was His perfect plan.

JMO

[AppyPappy]

So you think it is a coincidence that Jesus' words exactly mirror that of the Psalm? Interesting...

[DainBramage]

Yes but there is no reference to God separating or divorcing Himself from Jesus while he was on the Cross. I have seen no Scriptural evidence of God ever abandoning Jesus

Its at least a reference to it if not more.

[Taliesan]

Actually, open heart surgery is not very bloody. They divert the circulation to the machine.

[NordP]

AGREED! Well said.

Saving Private Ryan wasn't any walk in the park, but it was acclaimed as near genius.

Again, so interesting to watch the Dems be SO transparent, because they aren't "into" the subject matter.

[elbucko]

In any event, the Scots certainly would have been better off as part of the Empire than as dirty painted savages.

I disagree. Had the Scots been "Romanized", history would have been altered and the source of thought that culminated in the American Revolution might never have existed.

I am rather proud of my ancestors, "dirty painted savages" that they were.