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To: RobRoy
You're not a pest. I need to get this thing talked out!

Good!

>>Christ was not alone in His sufferings. John, Mary His Mother, and Mary followed Him and were as close to Him as possible the entire time.<<

"All of his disciples left him and, no offense, but I think one of the main points the Bible tries to make is the utter aloneness of Jesus in his suffering, to the point even that he said "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"–which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Hey, guess what! We agree on this: this is the pinnacle of Jesus suffering, the point in time when his suffering was the worst, so much that He felt abandoned by the Father.

However, I must re-state that Jesus wasn't alone. And ALL of His disciples didn't abandon Him. Only one - John - stayed, but that one makes all the difference.

Of course he was alone, in the sense that we have the skin boundary, but he had three people with him, as I said before - His mother, Mary and the disciple John - who were sharing His suffering. If you really believe He was alone even though three companions were with Him, why would you ever visit an ill friend in the hospital or speak out to support a friend who is being slandered, or any of those things we do to help each other in times of suffering? Why would you do that if they are suffering alone, anyway?

Yes, having your mother there can help, but God understands the cause of his mothers "love" and the concept of maternal instinct. And the other Mary as well, would not suffer consequences for being true to the end, since women were not held accountable as men were."

What about the woman who was going to be stoned for adultery? Women were held very accountable in their culture. Their roles were different from men, but they were held accountable.

In the Bible, Jesus physical suffering is not AS moving for me as His physical suffering. He of all men knew/knows the temporal nature of the body. In the movie, Mel was most successful portraying the physical suffering, but less so when it came to the emotional and spiritual suffering. Maybe it was a bad script. Maybe is was bad acting. Maybe it was just me. But that is how I came away from it. The movie did not move me, yet the Book does.

But our bodies aren't temporal! -not permanently, anyway! We believe in the resurrection of our bodies. I can't stress how important it is to see the importance of the physical. We won't be "complete" until the resurrection of our bodies re-unites our bodies with our souls. We aren't angels. We are made physical and spiritual, and death is the unnatural separation of those, brought on by sin.

And, considering this, remember that Christ didn't become an angel. Ever. He did become human. Why? Why did he become flesh and blood? He's God. His power is infinite. If He chose to become a physical being, an actual member of the new "dimension" of physical creation which He created, mustn't that be really important?

If the Bible speaks much more to you than the movie, you could look through the New Testament to find passages that refer to physical acts of Our Lord.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, it's just that my coming to realize that the physical is critical in the understanding of Christ and His teachings - of course I'm not saying that I understand perfectly or even to any great depth - has helped me to see Him in a beautiful new light and one that makes very logical sense.

One other note, when I saw the movie on Tuesday, I was surprised a little because it was much more "simple" than I had expected. I wasn't disappointed, as you were, but I was expecting... I don't know... something... sort of like seeing any movie made from a book and the scenes are placed differently than you've imagined them in your mind. However, this movie was touching to me in its profound simplicity.

Also, as a Catholic, I've been meditating and focusing on the Passion for my whole life, so I didn't cry. I was deeply touched, but by the beauty of Our Lord's willing sacrifice made with such selfless Love and put on the screen so that I could actually see something like what it had been when it happened.

My impression was: this is REAL - the Passion is the most real thing that's ever happened on this earth.

653 posted on 02/26/2004 1:12:36 PM PST by pax_et_bonum (Always finish what you st)
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To: pax_et_bonum
Yes, indeed. It's not just that Jesus Christ WAS God and Man; he still IS God and Man. He is the second Adam, and he's preparing a place for, not just for us, for the rest of us.
656 posted on 02/26/2004 1:29:35 PM PST by docmcb
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To: pax_et_bonum
On the cross Jesus was separated from God the Father. As someone who knows (Jesus), that is the definition of alone! He was the only human alive ever truly alone. Without that separation, Jesus could not finish His act of atonement for us.
710 posted on 02/26/2004 10:07:50 PM PST by xone
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