"My own viewing of the film" + "Mel does a Tarantino job on Christ"

My own viewing of the film ^ | 2004 | 2 authors

[Vinnie]

But I recall many critics of Christianity casually making the atom bomb charge the Christianity teaches there is a collective guilt.

I was brought up in the Southern Presbyterian Church. ( Sadly absorbed by the PCUSA.)

We were always taught that the Jews were God's chosen people. Period. I never heard an utterance against the Jews or that they somehow were collectively guilty of Jesus' death.

Whether it was my intreptation or implied, I always felt that a crime against the Jews was a crime against the Father himself.

Several members of my family, including my mother and her sister have visited the Holy Land.
Israel is considered sacred ground by most Christians and the last thing they want is the demise of Israel and the Jews.

I think the views of Foxman et al are warped.

[lavrenti]

Nothing stands to contridict me. Those in the Praetorium were probably Herodian collaborators--the chief enemies of any Jewish nationalist movement.

The New Testament only tells one part of the story, namely the perspective of a then-minor Jewish cult.

It was Pilate's decision, alone. Secular, brutal and totally Roman.

[lavrenti]

The Romans ruled the area, not the priests.

Getting a little confused here about who feels guilty here.

[Trinity_Tx]

Your feelings are understandable and predictable, which is why so many conservative Jews wish the Liberals and professional victim organizers like Foxman (and even a few "conservative" posters here) would shut the hell up.

I'd just hope that we could stay above the level of generalizing...it isnt right (or very intelligent) to project the attributes of Jews who are obnoxious onto those who are not.

I typed "Christians" to emphasize that not all who call themselves Christians, are. I'd say that someone who follows racist, hateful, Bible-twisting conspiracy theory pushers like Arnold Murray and Christian Identity groups are well deserving of the quotes. Regardless of how many scriptural references they throw to obscure the truth, or wails of indigence about the ADL when their racism is called on.

("kenite scum" is a pet term used by those who are into the replacement theology BS... Specifically referring to their belief that todays Jews are actually Kenites, descendants of Cain, who was the product of Satan impregnating Eve. Thus Jews are the literal seeds of satan, while we Americans and British are the actual Israelites/chosen ones... and this can be proven by complex scripture-twisting to the point of saying the parable of the fig tree was devinely inspired code for us in later times because figs are pollinated by - yup - WASPs! It is an insidious "religion" that is tempting to both the ignorant, and others those who are looking for a scapegoat for their own failures.)

[kosta50]

Thanks MarMema. A different twist on the same story -- there are going to be as many impressions as viewers. You would think that a movie being released on Ash Wednesday would serve to embrace the non-believers and spiritually uplift the believers.

Instead, the movie has created hate and discontent before it was even released. As such, the movie has already failed to proclaim the message of the Gospels.

Instead of abstaining from wickedness and evil in this time of Lent, insults and hate word are flying. I am sure Jesus would be the last person to approve of this movie because of the effect it has already had.

[MarMema]

Thanks for explaining to me what kenite scum meant.

[MarMema]

I have been surprised by the lack of compassion for a people who have, historically, suffered and been hated a lot. I was interested in learning more about this, and found this website which really amazed me in my ignorance.

The posts from the Christians here who say things like "That's it, I am not going to support Israel anymore" are very telling about what kind of Christianity they subscribe to.

All the more reason to be thankful for the Orthodox church and her teachings about love.

[kcvl]

Thank you for explaining.

[kcvl]

Christians here who say things like "That's it, I am not going to support Israel anymore" are very telling about what kind of Christianity they subscribe to.

It only takes so many times of getting stabbed in the back to say enough is enough. Some of us didn't realize how much we are hated. It must really be a love fest for Christians when you are behind closed doors.

[MarMema]

What makes you think you are hated?

[MarMema]

It must really be a love fest for Christians when you are behind closed doors.

Orthodox Christians know all too well about persecution.

[kosta50]

The link you provided is very informative. I would have liked for them to include linked documentation. Quoting out of context for the sake of making a point or brevity too often misleads.

The article in your link claims that John's Gospel "contains many passages in which the authors condemn "the Jews" as sons of Satan and accuse them of murdering Jesus."

First, the word Satan is mentioned only once in the Gospel of John (13:27) and it is not in connection with any sons of Satan.

In fairness to John and other Gospel writers, the term "Jews" is used equally for the supporters and opponents of Jesus, and often to clarify (i.e. Jews and Samaritans or Jews and Romans), where a generic term "people" is too vague.

John does imply that Jesus' followers were banned from the synagogues, but that seems to be well disputed by some Jewish sources.

The link you provided also confirms, but doesn't qualify, that antisemitic policies of Christianity (official church) are vastly restricted to the Roman Catholic officials, and are clearly lacking in the Orthodox Church.

The pogroms mentioned in Ukraine also apply to that, since Ukraine was mostly under the Polish (Catholic) control. The reference to antisemitic pogroms after the Assassination of Alexander II do not represent Orthodox Church's official position. Most of Russian antisemitism stems from the Napoleonic wars, when (Polish) Jews in Russia opted to trade with the invading French armies while the Russian peasants killed all their live stock and burned their property (using Peter the Great's scorched earth policy) to deny the invaders any benefit of their blessings

The future pogroms were "justified" so as to deny the Jews in Russia the means to do business with Russia's enemies in the future, by having a portion of their live stock and farm products confiscated or destroyed.

Modern roots of Russian antisemitism are also not found in the Orthodox Church. Pro czarist groups and later emigres bought into the false "Protocols of the Fathers of Zion," apparently made up by the czarist secret police, as part of the "worldwide consipracy" of Jes and Masons "theory," something that was very popular in Europe at the time, and the fact that a disproportionate number of Jews, compared to their non-Jewish countrymen were involved in the leading positions of the Bolshevik movement (take for instance Trotsky).

[dennisw]

Thanks much for the link. I followed it and read some of it. This book is supposed to be very good. It's very long and I had to return it to the library before I read more than 50 pages. Constantine was to the prime mover in "the Church's" anti Semitism. He got the ball rolling.



Constantine's Sword: The Church and the Jews: A History

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395779278/qid%3D976110512/102-8733479-0048967

[dennisw]

Thanks much!

[dennisw]

Orthodox Christians know all too well about persecution.

And have been bearing the brunt of Islamic Jihad on the Christian world for the last 500 years. European Catholics/Protestants have had no worry from Muslims ever since they were repulsed from the Gates of Vienna. Within the last 125 years European Catholics have sold out the Armenian orthodox, the Greek Orthodox, the Balkan Orthodox to the Jihadist Muslim masters of genocide. By European Catholics I mean the Vatican and governments of European Catholic nations.  Latest outrage being Euro-Catholic non support for Serb Orthodox in their battle against Albanian Muslims. And their aggression on Serbia via bring the USA into the war to bomb Serbs into submission.

[kosta50]

Constantine was a pagan to his dying day when he is rumored to have been baptized. His embrace of Christianity was done in the typical Roman way. He had a vision of a cross that he believed helped him win a battle and he decided this was a good omen and stopped the persecution of Chirstians. To him, Jesus was just another "good luck charm." His wife was a heretic and influenced heresy to enter the court.

Constantine made himself the head of the Church. There is nothing the church could do. Besides, Paul taught submission to authority. All the subsequent church councils were called "ecumenical" -- meaning worldly, but in effect they mean "imperial." The bishop of Constantinopole (aka Imperial City), was the "imperial bishop," in its twisted form.

The very existence of an imperial head of the Church was proof positive that there is danger in placing the power of the church into the hands of one man. That's why all Church decisions had to be done by the Synod of bishops in which they ere all equal.

It is essential to differentiate between policies of secular heads of the church and church synodal policies, of which only the latter is the official policy of the church.

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Nothing stands to contridict me. Those in the Praetorium were probably Herodian collaborators--the chief enemies of any Jewish nationalist movement.

Nothing stands to support you.

[185JHP]

Thanks Dennis. I'll definitely not go to see it now.

[repub32]

PFFFFTTTTTTTTTT, the High Priests went to the romans because only the romans could condemn to crucifixion.

[.30Carbine]

Instead, the movie has created hate and discontent before it was even released. As such, the movie has already failed to proclaim the message of the Gospels.

The movie is as incapable of "creating hate" as the Bible itself is. Hate is an emotion living in men's hearts. "Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks." When a sponge is squeezed what is already locked in its pores is what comes out; will you blame the hand that squeezes it?

Jesus Christ said, "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." He stirred up riots with his claims, he created havoc with his teachings, his disciples "turned the world upside down" by spreading his message.

Would you say Jesus should not have come to earth because of all the hate directed at him?

Would you claim that he failed to preach his own gospel because division and uproar sprang up in his wake?

Or could you perhaps admit that the hate in men's hearts was not created by but revealed at the coming of the Christ?