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To: realpatriot71; Ichneumon
IMHO, you don't quite grasp the impossibilities of situation, you cannot "build" the biochemical and molecular basis of life simply by adding isolated feature/ functions, because in a cell all features and functions, as a necessary condition, need other features and functions in order to work - the biochemistry is intimately tied together.

Sure, I grasp the impossibility of the situation as you portray it but it doesn't have to be that way.
It is true that the biochemistry in a cell is intimately tied together, as you express it, but not to such a degree that every small change causes the whole system to break down. So the addition of isolated features (which aren't immediately detrimental to the cell) is the way these biochemical systems get more complex. Through other changes those features may become essential for the cell. (I suggest you read Ichneumon's post on how so-called irreducibly complex systems can form by gradual change)

So the only problem in this scenario should be the emergence of the first self-replicator(s). Of course if we assume that it must be as complex as most modern single-celled organisms then I concede that it's practically impossible that it could have arisen by chance but I don't see why this has to be the case. Most likely the first self-replicators were a lot less complex than any organism we know today.
And since research in this field is only in its infancy and our knowledge on what is possible resp. impossible in biochemical systems is still quite limited, I think it's quite presumptuous to declare abiogenesis to be impossible.

181 posted on 02/21/2004 8:19:58 AM PST by BMCDA
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To: BMCDA
It is true that the biochemistry in a cell is intimately tied together, as you express it, but not to such a degree that every small change causes the whole system to break down.

Really?! This is inconsistant with what can be objectively seen today in medicine . . . one - small - change --> leads to disease of the cell, and it ceases functioning properly or outright dies.

So the addition of isolated features (which aren't immediately detrimental to the cell) is the way these biochemical systems get more complex. Through other changes those features may become essential for the cell.

Cute. However, wholely and entirely inconsistant with what we understand about the principles of biochemistry and molecular/cellular biology and what can be objectively seen.

So the only problem in this scenario should be the emergence of the first self-replicator(s).

True

Of course if we assume that it must be as complex as most modern single-celled organisms then I concede that it's practically impossible that it could have arisen by chance but I don't see why this has to be the case.

Again true - "impossibility" is this case occurs because the emergence of any life-like "self-replicator" is inconsistant with what is known and objective.

I think it's quite presumptuous to declare abiogenesis to be impossible.

And I, obviously, think it quite presumptuous to declare abiogenesis to be possible.

182 posted on 02/21/2004 8:40:37 AM PST by realpatriot71 ("But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise . . ." (I Cor. 1:27))
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