If someone is attacked first for any reason, they have the right to slam back. When I talk about "nasty" posters and freepers acting like "Democrats", I'm referring to the same handful of juveniles making vicious sweeping statements against "Rhinold" supporters or the thousand variations of this. The attacks from some freepers against Schwarzenegger or the people who supported him as the most rightward candidate haven't stopped for a SECOND.
Yes, it's a tragedy for the CA GOP on several levels. I won't get into that, however, it would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire ;-) It does seem, however, that many of these same individuals would be more than happy to see the GOP fail entirely if it meant that a third party would gain strength from it way down the road. That's not a partner in politics, THAT is an opponent. We have people on both the RIGHT and the LEFT rooting for Arnold to fail in a spectacular manner... sorry, but something is really wrong with that picture.
Why should it be seperated? You were more right before, its just "nasty" and that's all that is important.
If someone is attacked first for any reason, they have the right to slam back.
Like I said before, I understand that sentiment, however, that hypotheical person has absolutely no right to complain about said "nastiness" ;-)
The attacks from some freepers against Schwarzenegger or the people who supported him as the most rightward candidate haven't stopped for a SECOND.
Yup. As I told you it would. Ready for another prophesy? If the most rightward candidate moves leftward it will get much much worse.
Yes, it's a tragedy for the CA GOP on several levels. I won't get into that
You should get into that, that is the most important thing that anyone on here can talk about. Because of the victory, you don't yet see how perilous that has left the CA GOP. I'll explain that in a bit.
It does seem, however, that many of these same individuals would be more than happy to see the GOP fail entirely if it meant that a third party would gain strength from it way down the road.
Baaaa humbug. A 3rd party will never gain enough strength to win dog catcher. Look how left San Fran is, and they couldn't even elect a Green. Its never going to happen, and more importantly, I reject your assertion that "Tombots" are 3rd party types, because I know them. I know them well, they found someone in Tom that finally said what they knew was right, and he said it in factual, specific, and unconditional prose, and they actually believed in a politician for once. They locked onto that and wouldn't let go. Who we are talking about here are conservatives, who based on the policies that Arnold has and has not taken on social issues, spending cuts, immigration (I mean, you have to admit the list does go on) view him, rightward or not, as unsupportable. I am not trying to say that you were wrong, or that he is a bad Gov, we disagree on the rightward strategy-that's all. All I'm am trying to say to you is that this is where they are coming from; they view him as another liability and are deeply troubled by him and the rise of his supporters.
That's not a partner in politics, THAT is an opponent.
You just aren't getting the point here. You have to think about the trap you are putting yourself in. Politics is made of of coalitions, strained at times, but moving towards a common goal. You are forgetting, you won! You are the victors, and with that comes responsibility. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip, and there is nothing more you can get out of the McClintock supporters, end of story. Like I keep telling you, you HAVE to be more mature about this and stop looking to be outraged. You have more to barter with, having power, you can let these little people rant, they can't do anything, but if you seek to silence them "for the good of the party" not only will you fail, you risk something you haven't even considered; party apathy. I speak from experience here, I'm not alone in no longer believing in the CA GOP. Haven't you noticed that the strategy of shushing these people has been a spectacular FAILURE on one thread after another? Didn't you ever wonder why? Its not because you said it the wrong way, its that these people will never accept what they believe to be liberal policy! As I said before, you don't want them to long term, these are great soldiers in the conservative cause, you and all of those who care about Arnold need to defend his policy when you can, and ignore the petty stuff about him personally because they will never yield to what they consider to be a Democrat. Don't forget, the Tombots view you as a sellout and a traitor, I'm not saying that is at all fair, right, or true, but that's the unfortunate reality and you need to understand how you are talking to a wall with them. Now the Tombots and the (R)nold Groupies have much in common issue wise, and need eachother to win. In fact, they cannot win another election in CA without eachother. I understand he got about 50% of the vote, again I'll explain that in a bit.
We have people on both the RIGHT and the LEFT rooting for Arnold to fail in a spectacular manner... sorry, but something is really wrong with that picture.
Well I am sorry to be the one to have to break this to you, but you were warned about that before the election, that is moderate triangulation politics. The Tombots are not dullards, they were so "nasty" because they have seen this before and didn't want it to happen when they had such a good candidate running. If Arnold moves center-left, the very Left papers and politicians of this state will not appreciate him, and the conservatives will seeth with anger. The media will help destroy him just as they did national to Bush 41. If he moves center-right, some conservatives will suport him but not that passionately, and the Left will go after him mercilessly. The point that has been made is that there is no winning in the center in CA. Incendentally, I saw a story on Drudge about how he is promising huge cuts in the bonds fail, if that happens I PROMISE you that 90% of the Tombots would CHEER if he did. Its his only way out really. I really hope he does!
So why am I saying that we can't win another election without eachother? Because Arnold had no political baggage, and was running against THE MOST UNPOPULAR POLITICIAN IN THE HISTORY OF POLLING. Also, he was vague in policy, while being a charming, likeable actor from movies we all liked. He was probably my favorite actor. In the next election you will see things get back to normal, and that means without the Tombots, the Demos will win hands down in 06. I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that is a disaster that must be prevented.
I hope now you appreciate more of what this conflict really means, the DUmmies, by the way, have to be laughing at the "nastiness" because they know what it means for 06. If you have any, ANY sway with Tempest and the others, you must try to reason with them to understand all of this before its too late. Lord knows I'm not around here much anymore, the only reason I come on here is to defend Mel Gibson, I just saw McClintock's name in the thread and checked it out. Its actually odd that we would talk about this. The truth is that most of the Tombots aren't going to be as levelheaded about this and if he moves leftward and the two sides can't find an understanding now, they will be permanently splintered. You guys have to be the grownups about this and find a way to work with them.