The Reality of Outsourcing

Townhall.com ^ | Bruce Bartlett

[oceanview]

and the beat goes on:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1080392/posts

[ninenot]

OK. So please show the SOURCE on which you base your contention that the US' standard of living was LESS than Europe's until, say, 1960, and then became LESS than Europe's (or Japan's) after 1970.

Gas lines and rocket technology do NOT count as sources.

[Redcloak]

Yes, but the question is whether an economy can be sustained employing environmentalists and diversity consultants.

And that question is answered by the free market; not the crypto-socialists. There's nothing magical about it. If a demand exists, then someone will come along to fill that demand. At no point in the process does a third party's opinion of the importance of the item come into play. You and I might think that an environmentalist industry or a diversity consultant industry is goofy, but that doesn't matter to the loon who wants to pay money for just such a service.

[Redcloak]

You live in a chaotic universe, get used to it.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics: Learn it, live it, love it.

[superloser]

Can anybody explain the "disconnect" here between what I am observing and what the lamestream media and Democrats are telling us, regarding the "worst economy since the Depression"?

We borrowed what you are observing. Eventually, it must be paid back with interest.

Any questions?

[old-ager]

> Can anybody explain the "disconnect" here

I'm not an economist, but here's a common-sense observation: It's foreign money. The United States, due to its MILITARY strength, is the safe harbor of the world. Just absolutely that simple. And if we continue down the road we are on, we won't have even the military power, and we will be done. We will be swarmed by a godless horde. Evolutionists/abortionists/free-traitors/materialists here won't understand and will be shrilly denouncing these words, but Christians, American conservatives, and anybody with any morals understands that an immoral nation will destroy itself.

[Alberta's Child]

Here's a dumb question:

Why is it that the U.S. savings rate on that chart was at its highest in the 1970s, when this country's economy was in the toilet?

[Alberta's Child]

You tell me how you would define the term "standard of living," and I'll go about doing the research. Deal?

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: " The "conservatives" on this board who think the sky is falling are a different story. They are sincere; they are extrapolating one trend into the whole field of vision. Unintentional fiction."

As is the the case in most things, it's not quite that simple. I am one of the doom and gloomers. The conflict is most evident between two views offered by the BLS household and establishment surveys.

The household survey of employment suggests to many that millions of jobs have been created. The establishment survey says hundreds of thousands of jobs have been lost. There are tons of anecdotal evidence on both sides.

Regardless, there is little doubt that millions of Americans are bearing the burden alone as our economy slowly adjusts to "globalization." Fine. That's life. Many are working at lower paying jobs or part time looking for full time jobs. This satisfies the mainstream Republicans' "jobs is jobs" crowd. Meanwhile dem Rats make much of the troubles. It worked for them in 1992 -- with 24/7 help from the mainstream media.

So, I for one am NOT "extrapolating one trend into the whole field of vision." I know that 90 percent are doing from just Okay to very well indeed, thank you!

But I am tired of seeing the one trend (the ten percent) get bashed by the Limbaugh-Hegecock-Sullivan "conservatives" as being the cause of unemployment because they are too lazy to go back to work. I've heard all three men say it.

People didn't move from the farms to the factories over a weekend. It takes time. Give those bearing the burden some slack. But no! It's a dynamite schadenfreude high gawking at their troubles, isn't it?

[superloser]

Why is it that the U.S. savings rate on that chart was at its highest in the 1970s, when this country's economy was in the toilet?

I think you answered your own question, but add this to it: In the 1970s, the US was not an "instant gratification" society. Some vestiges of the Depression-Era still lingered. That doesn't exist anymore. Its consumption, consumption, consumption these days. People in their 20s and 30s used to save money. Now they go and party.

A lot of people are doing cash-out refis on their houses to buy cars with. Hence, the debt ratio skyrockets. Others I know are doing cash-out refis to consolodate other credit card debt. Others still are unemployed and are doing cash-out refis in order to buy groceries.

Look at it another way: Check the ads on TV. 0% financing and no payments for two years from -uh- everyone? Sounds like desperation for sales.

What say you?

[Taliesan]

I can't speak for others. I don't think all those folks are too lazy to look for another job. There is real suffering going on. I take no joy in that.

[old-ager]

> You live in a chaotic universe, get used to it.

Some of us believe that we are here to impose ORDER on the chaos, though. But my wish for you is total chaos. Have fun.

[Redcloak]

You don't get the "Second Law of Thermodynamics" reference, do you?

[XBob]

68-"Once the pool of Americans pursuing tech careers shrinks, you lose the critical mass required to produce real stars, and hence the R&D edge is lost to offshore talent.
Also if you eliminate entry level jobs - no more people will enter the field."

===
Your excellent point, which I have been preaching, finally hit home to me in another way - 'hatchlings'.

To get job protection, we need to declare ourselves 'wetlands'. Which they are, offshoring our lesser level jobs kills our 'hatchlings' and birthplace of our genius.

[oceanview]

how does the school teacher draw a salary without a underlying tax base from the productive sector? do we just have government print the money and pay them? like argentina?

[oceanview]

the term "standard of living" is at issue. what is it?

People can go out an buy a new chinese made wardrobe, and chinese DVD players, and chinese furniture. But they can't afford to pay for health insurance.

The truth is, our standard of living is only higher when measured through manufactured goods made offshore. Now that may not alone be a bad thing, because cheap foreign made goods have at least allowed americans to have subpar wage growth, and still maintain that standard of living as measured by how many goods they have. But at least we should all accept that this is what is going on, because for most people, real wages are declining.

[XBob]

85 - "So out of a class of 30, you might have 2 that will excel in a global marketplace, 25 that will go on to blue collar jobs or make fries, and 3 that will forever live on the incomes of the others. I suspect that in Japan and many other countries you would have a much larger percentage that will excel and a smaller number of french friers."

No, Sender, I have lived and worked in those countries, and the percentages are about the same as what you generalize. Pretty good generalization, BTW.

What happens, however, is the 2 see the problems, and do their best to get out of them. Thus, when we get the real immigrants, we are getting the 'cream' of the corp. What is happening however, with the illegals from Mexico, we are getting the 'french friers', who didn't have the forsight to get a good education and apply for visas.

[XBob]

87- bttt - "We are the masters of corporations for through our state covenrments we grant them their *limited* charters. Coprorations are not individuals, they are fiats of the state -- in the US the state is an merely the agent of the People, and the state in chartering and policing the corporations MUST -- by all that is honest and right by the laws and duties of agency -- act in OUR interets."

[meadsjn]

how does the school teacher draw a salary without a underlying tax base from the productive sector? do we just have government print the money and pay them? like argentina?

No. The school teacher's union demands more money from the county. The county raises property taxes. The property owners borrow (more) against their equity to pay the increasing taxes.

This was the reason for the widespread tax revolts in the 1930s. Taxes were increasing and the government workers were doing well, while the taxpayers were getting sliced from both directions.

It is happening again. And just like before, most of those government workers keep demanding the slices on the taxpayer be deeper and deeper, because they don't feel a thing.

[gg188]

It's like GM outsources it's parts to be manufactured by outside companies

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1077149/posts