Immigration's Silent Invasion, Deadly Consequences

Nrilinks ^ | Dec 22, 2003

[Tamzee]

We're wasting our breath with these "conservatives". They rant about Bush not solving the problem and flatly demand that Bush "close the borders" and yet they have no viable solution for how that could be done without outrageous expense. They snidely berate Bush for not kicking out the illegals and yet have no solution for how to do that without setting up a police state that can stop anyone at any time to ask for "papers" just based on their appearance.

Genuine conservatives would want to take these aspects into account in addition to the problem of illegal immigration... many posters are obsessed with illegal immigrants to the exclusion of not only political strategy and survival, but other conservative ideals they pretend to stand for.

[B4Ranch]

I want President Bush to support America, not illegal criminals.

Answer #67 before you worry about "finding 12 million unknown/unregistered illegals". That "12 million " will drop way down.

[Hostage]

Forced deportation is not practical. Self-deportion is achievable.

Some measures that will encourage self-deportation:

1. A resolution in Congress and an affirmation by the Supreme Court over a defensive interpretation of the 14th Amendment regarding citizenship.

2. New and enforceable retrictions on family reunification policies and law.

3. A full-measure hidden surveillance and backup militarization of all geographical U.S. borders.

4. Harsh monetary and criminal sanctions against federal and local regulatory, social service, health, education organizations including employers that aid and abet persons or groups that are intentionally violating U.S. immigration laws.

5. An expansion of existing restrictions and tariffs on wire transfers from within the United States to persons unable to prove legal status.

This last measure is perhaps the strongest. It is estimated that net wages or benefits of $1200-2000 a month made in the U.S. can fund a future illegal crossing for up to four persons. By making it difficult for an illegal person to to fund the illegal crossing of others, many persons of illegal status will return to their place of origin. Increased border surveillance and enforcement will change the risk-reward ratio for persons that physically transport cash to their country of origin.

[B4Ranch]

My cohorts are doing a fine job defending themselves and their ideas. No need for me to jump in.

[Porterville]

But if you keep pointing people to the actual Bush proposal then those on the fence or who do not know what Bush is proposing can look into it themselves. For me, I know I can always trust Bush to be a step ahead, so if people just read his proposal, most will think it is a measured approach to solving the problem.

[Porterville]

I like five, but your solution would be the next logical step after the Bush proposal is enforced. Get the names of the workers and the businesses who hire them, and take away the incentive for hiring illegals.

[Porterville]

"Answer #67"

What part is that? The part where you call me foolish or accuse me of blowing smoke by quoting your President?

[schmelvin]

There's no vaccine for TB... or SARS, or Chagas disease, or dengue fever.

Yes, you're right. There's not a vaccine for every disease out there. All that travelers can do is take every precaution possible. I got a series of vaccines, a prescription for Larium, took vitamins with antioxidents, and obtained a high quality insect repellant before I left for Africa. Even then, there were no guarantees.

But, when you travel (a voluntary choice), you are only exposed to these diseases for a limited period of time, and a healthy immune system can often win these brief battles. Once these diseases cross our borders though, everything changes. The immune system can only fight for so long. Chronic exposure is too taxing, even on the healthiest of immune systems. That's where the real danger lies: With day in, day out, no end in sight, chronic exposure (not a voluntary choice on our part, but foisted upon us).

[B4Ranch]

To: Porterville


They will self-deport if the penalties for violations are made severe enough.


67 posted on 02/16/2004 7:46:49 AM PST by brianl703

[Hostage]

The Bush proposal contains many parts. What part(s) are you referring to?

What good does getting a name of an illegal do and how would it be verified?

What good would getting the names of business that hire illegals do if they plead they hired based on fraudulent identification and claim of legal status?

And what does this have to do with self-deportation?

You appear to be all over the map on this, without focus. That's not a personal attack, just a criticism of your posts. Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

[Nebr FAL owner]

The TB threat is indeed real as it can be transmitted by air ie you are in a room with somebody who is coughing & hacking even if he covers his mouth with his hand you have still been exposed.

[Nebr FAL owner]

Putting the military on the border for the purpose of law enforcement would be in violation of the posse comitatus act. However having the government build a version of Hadrian's wall on the U.S./Mexican border along with a civilian auxillary backing up the Border Patrol would do a great deal to reduce the volume of illegals. If the military is in fact needed it would require that the Fed.Govt. to purchase land along the border from its civilian owners to create a federal reservation were the military could operate under DOD rules .

[schmelvin]

I'd like to add one more thing. Many Americans lead a fast paced, high-stress lifestyle and consume a junk food laden, nutritionally deficient diet. Their immune systems are already overburdened.

These Americans do NOT want to be anywhere near an illegal immigrant infected with an "exotic" disease (a disease the likes of which their immune system has never seen and is in no way prepared to battle).

[Hostage]

You are mistaken with respect to the Posse Comitatus Act:

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

The actual codes in general leave as a last resort the involvement of DoD but do not prohibit it. Congress could pass tomorrow a resolution to place troops on the border without violating any former law or they could overturn any ambiguous code.

[Porterville]

Good you read it, I directed you and many others in a singular direction "on the map"

A. Next, registering verified names lets you know who is in the country and where they live. This is good because it gives you real numbers and real locations. Verify with the businesses that hire and the landlord they rent from; also take a finger print, blood test, retinal scan, DNA sample, whatever way you want to give them a unique identifier. The world is not that complicated.

B. Businesses that are hiring illegals will be forced to declare the workers, pay minimum wage (again taking away incentive in the first place), and pay taxes on those workers. Verification once again is very simple (see part A.)

C. If the incentive is gone for businesses to hire and the people who are registered with the government will have to leave in 3 years or re-up for a shrinking base of jobs traditionally suited for illegals at below minimum wage; well then they'd be better off working in Mexico.

D. And again, I am not sure what map you are talking about, but I am glad you finally read the proposal, at least I was able to direct you in a straight line to the source of actual resource. It is the goal of every navigator.

[Porterville]

These Americans do NOT want to be anywhere near an illegal immigrant infected with an "exotic" disease (a disease the likes of which their immune system has never seen and is in no way prepared to battle).

Good lord!! We better close all the international airports too!!! Oh my God, can you imaging all of the disease in an airport, or in a shipyard, or that Americans bring back from service over seas!!! We aught to put up a brick wall 10 feet high to keep everyone in and everyone else out!!!

Berlin had it right aye comrade??

[Porterville]

We couldn't use the Nati-Guard on the border for patrols like they do at the bridges and airports? I didn't think this was a violation of the law.

[Hostage]

Please don't patronize me and others. Again it is not a personal attack, it is a criticism of your postings.

You did not answer the question in depth. Let me be clear that you are responding to someone who holds a doctorate from one of the top five universities in the world.

I say that to put you on notice not to gloss over questions and challenges put to you. Answer each and every previous question fully and respond to each and every assertion below else you will be ignored.

A> Real names are more often unverifiable. Real addresses are vaporous. Technological databases are expensive and not practical compared to other remedies.

B> Most businesses do declare workers, obey the law with respect to minimum wage and pay taxes on their workers.

C> Most American businesses do not hire illegals. Most illegals are subsisting by collateral benefits of enrolling school children, by Medicaid funded Emergency Rooms and by opportunistic employment via relatives or ethnic support groups. For example, a purported 'relative' who has legal status will contract to harvest an apple crop in Washington State and will then bus in 'relatives' to perform the work.

There are several reasons why illegal persons tolerate these conditions. One is that they can eat, two is that they can enroll school children in local schools where they can receive tangential benefits of all social services, three no Emergency Room can deny them healthcare by law, four the social service systems do not verify status of non-English speaking persons unless it is done through intepreters who often orginate from illegal status themselves or have relatives that are, and so on.

Illegals endure these conditions until they have an opening in family reunification, until they bear a child or are granted amnesty or other euphemism for legalized status.

Therefore, the idea that illegal immigration can be controlled even in part by forcing businesses to "declare" anything is ludicrous because the tools available to businesses to verify a person's status are not made available. Why? This does not absolve businesses from doing their part to curb illegal hiring especially if they are given access to powerful verification tools.

Lastly your assertion of a shrinking job base for illegals is absurd. There will still be illegal persons and they will continue to take day labor jobs and jobs in the fields, always. However, your mention of illegals being better off in Mexico is a step in the right direction. You must now expand upon that thought and carry it out to its conclusion.

The question is what general actions could make most illegal Mexicans desire to return to Mexico short of incarceration and open hostility? Note the focus is on the basic motivations of illegals not government actions.

They need to eat.
They need shelter.
They need family.

For all these things they need money or coupons. But mostly they need to send money because that is their true motive. Once you get into the mind of an illegal person, then you search for ways to stop them from enjoying these basics in free fashion.

We are not about suppressing a class of people. We are about protecting ourselves from an overwhelming number of persons that wish to take without asking, that wish to burden out retirees and youth with excessive demands that are not in proportion to their productivity and earning capacity.

We want those that are invited to stay within our borders to enjoy our freedom but we want those that are uninvited to find life very difficult should they wish to take what is not rightfully theirs.

[sweetliberty]

They're just carrying the diseases that Americans refuse to carry.