School Budgets, Teaching and Teachers {Ron Smith}

WBAL AM-RADIO Baltimore ^ | Friday, February 13, 2004 | Ron Smith

[Amelia]

Well, now with the special ed kiddos on the same list of pass/not pass as the regular ed kids, the school is being evaluated incorrectly. Their should be a better way to evaluate them, or count them differently.

That's very true.

I salute you - special ed is a difficult job.

[Amelia]

I'm not happy with the core courses I'm force to take - a lot of impractical psychobabble, with heavy doses of "diversity" and "belonging".

Very few of them are practical. Some are less so than others. The best training is when you visit classrooms and during student teaching. Hopefully you'll get a good mentor.

Here's some advice that has nothing to do with classroom management: Good comfortable shoes are worth any cost. ;-)

I'm wondering, is there a ping list for teacher's issues here on FR?

Summer had one at one time. I'm not sure if there's another or not.

[SauronOfMordor]

Meanwhile, research shows that the tried & true method of lecture & explanation, then practice, is the best way of imparting information. Odd that it's not the method the ed schools or the administrators recommend.

Likewise, it has long been known that the best time to start foreign language instruction is in the early grades, where kids can pick it up effortlessly. Yet in the public school system, kids don't get any until high-school

A friend of mine was talking to a friend of hers, who teaches at a private school for very well-to-do families. There, they do language instruction starting from first grade. My friend asked the teacher why this wasn't done in regular schools. Her reply: "One does not give servants the keys to the master's bedroom." I'm not making this up.

Call me tinfoil-hatted, but the only explanation that makes sense to me is that there is a deliberate and conscious effort to sabotage the education of public school kids, so that the gifted middle-class kids will not be competition for the kids of the elites. I worry all the time about what I could do to make my kids more competitive in the 21st century. I'm sure that parents among the elites must also be thinking about what they can do. And I would not be surprised if more than a few conclude that, while there is a limit to how well fertilizer will make their saplings grow, a chainsaw may be effective in making sure they are taller than any competition

[summer]

Re teacher's ping list - Actually, no, I never had one just for teachers. A lot of teachers were following the FL Gov race when I was posting a great deal of education information about Gov Jeb Bush, so, I guess it appeared as if I had a teacher ping list. That would be a good project though, because I discovered there are certainly quite a few teachers and college professors here on FR - far more than one might guess.

[Dianna]

My friend asked the teacher why this wasn't done in regular schools. Her reply: "One does not give servants the keys to the master's bedroom." I'm not making this up.

It might be a big conspiracy, but let's be reasonable. Language instruction just isn't a big priority to anyone. They are busy fighting for more money, smaller classes, etc.

Frankly, if I had a choice, I'd vote against foreign languages being taught in my local school. About the only way they could fit it in is to completely eliminate the only recess the kids get.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Amelia,
You are correct that the teachers can't fix the problem as things are, and administrators are not good either. But the teachers union is to blame for this. Who has the time and energy to stack the ballot process in favor of school boards who give the teachers the seniority system?

Of course parents can do their part, and the ones who value education do help their kids get through the system. But how much better if teachers really know their subject matter and keep the kids interest up?

Every school has several teachers who don't know what they are doing and turn kids off. Right?

[KC_for_Freedom]

It would be good to see a teachers ping list, summer. As a former teacher I would like to be on it too.

I believe teachers in different districts often face the same problems. But sometimes there are unique circumstances.

The main thing is to realize that education is too important to leave in the hands of the left leaning union and the many left leaning teachers out there who only care how much equal outcome they can get and how to reduce the system's dependency on merit. Grades and maybe some salaries.

Teaching that everything can be taught in groups, (same grade for all) and that we need to look into attacks against us to see what we did to cause the attacks. Examples of the thing that brings down the level of reading, writing, and math that are learned.

[Amelia]

the best time to start foreign language instruction is in the early grades, where kids can pick it up effortlessly. Yet in the public school system, kids don't get any until high-school

I agree it would be best if the children learned foreign languages in elementary school, and in Europe it's not uncommon for students to finish high school proficient in several languages. Of course, if they don't do well enough in elementary school there, they don't get to go to high school. They go to job training instead.

I teach in a high school. Frankly, at this point I'd be happy if my students were reading and doing math somewhere near grade level by the time they got to me.

the only explanation that makes sense to me is that there is a deliberate and conscious effort to sabotage the education of public school kids, so that the gifted middle-class kids will not be competition for the kids of the elites

If that's true, it's a remarkably short-sighted strategy, because those children who have no job skills will not be good employees for the elites either.

It's not just the elites, you know. Somewhere around 1975 I was living in Florida when either the state or the district I was living in implemented its first high school graduation test. A sample test was printed in the paper. All the questions were "life skills" types of questions - reading well enough to understand a newspaper story or basic instructions, doing math well enough to balance a checkbook or calculate sales tax.

The first time the test was given, some students failed, and many of those who failed were minorities. The NAACP immediately tried to sue the school system, saying the test discriminated against black students. They didn't seem at all concerned that those students might not have the skills needed to be successful in life.

[Amelia]

there are certainly quite a few teachers and college professors here on FR - far more than one might guess.

Very true!

[Porterville]

there are certainly quite a few teachers and college professors here on FR - far more than one might guess.

Hi there

[Amelia]

But the teachers union is to blame for this.

The unions aren't blameless, but I don't believe they are solely to blame. The politicians and judges deserve a share as well, as do administrators, teachers, parents, and students. I don't think any one factor is solely to blame.

Every school has several teachers who don't know what they are doing and turn kids off. Right?

I already said there are bad teachers out there. Some schools have more than others. Of course, every school I've ever been associated with also has several fantastic teachers on the other end of the spectrum, and quite a few who are average.

[George Frm Br00klyn Park]

(1). We should all just walk out?

D, YEAH!! Only then is there even a chance that like minded people that you mention can support you. There are enough teachers to IMPEACH judges who make law. There are enough teachers to unelect elected school officials who ignore the problems. There are even enough teachers to unelect governors who appoint school officials who ignore the problems {YOURS AND PARENTS}.

If the job is so bad, QUIT!! "Any dummy" can do what the administrationss want. And they DO!! As do the "smart" ones while consistently FAILING to educate children. Peace and love, George.

[Jim Noble]

Why is this impossible to achieve?

What percentage of American children do you think are intellectually capable of going beyond eighth grade?

Do you think it's 100?

[cherry]

"somebody who never winds up making enough to pay significant taxes is a bad investment."

that is so untrue......

fact is, the real substance of a nation is in its masses....

if the masses aren't civic minded and family oriented, you can line 10 Bill Gates's up in a row and it wouldn't mean squat...

as far as education goes, people with special gifts should be nurtured, but not to the point where we have the majority of children leaving school without knowing how to read, or write, or knowing basic history so they can be good citizens...

besides, for truely gifted people, they are like cream, they go to the top no matter what....

[bk1000]

"but in many areas, parents don't want their children wearing uniforms, or even following a strict dress code."

I know what you mean. I argued on behalf of school uniforms once on FR, and was sorely pummelled. Something about jackboots and Hitler Youth. Problem is, some feel that any form of dicipline borders on abuse. My opinion is that strict dicipline as a youth encourages one to think before one acts later in life. In other words, it can instill a sense of responsibility. Some seem to see this as a bad thing. They see it as crushing individuality and creativity. Meanwhile, Johnny still can't read.

[ladylib]

Educationnews.org ran a story last week about school principals who are stopping smart kids from taking gifted and talented programs in magnet schools because they need these kids to do well on NCLB tests in their home schools.

Parents and students will not put up with this for very long. People actually resent being used in this manner and will eventually leave in droves.

IMHO if you have to educate one end of the spectrum, you have to educate the other end.

[Amelia]

If the job is so bad, QUIT!! "Any dummy" can do what the administrationss want. And they DO!! As do the "smart" ones while consistently FAILING to educate children.

George, it's not going to happen until it's much much worse, and you are never totally going to understand why until and unless you understand the good teachers.

The really good teachers aren't there for the salaries and benefits (although they need those to survive and raise their families); they are there for the children and because they want to teach. In their souls they need to teach. If they walked out they'd feel they were abandoning the children.

You need to try some time in the classroom. Seriously. Anyone can sit on the sidelines and pontificate, but to those of us who've actually been there, your comments are looking increasingly idealistic and ignorant.

[Oberon]

Why is this impossible to achieve?

Because:

1. Curricula no longer have fact drills as their core methodology, or even priority.

2. Teachers have been stripped of the power to enforce any meaningful degree of discipline.

[FLAUSA]

The median income in Baltimore is $34,500 while a starting teacher makes $34,973 and can earn up to $68,534 with senority and advanced degrees. This is not including other benefits: tuition tax credits, signing bonuses, relocation loans, fully paid health insurance, fully paid dental program, prescription drug program for only $4 per month, fully paid life insurance, fully paid vison plan, pension plan, tax sheltered annuity program 403 b, tuition reimbursment, student loan repayment, Baltimore home ownership partnership, teacher next door program, and employee assistant plan. Oh and I forgot the stipends such as:advanced professional certificate stipend ($2000), national certificate stipend ($4000), and critical shortage development bonus ($1500).

Cry me a river!

[Amelia]

Problem is, some feel that any form of dicipline borders on abuse. My opinion is that strict dicipline as a youth encourages one to think before one acts later in life. In other words, it can instill a sense of responsibility. Some seem to see this as a bad thing. They see it as crushing individuality and creativity. Meanwhile, Johnny still can't read.

I agree with you. It also seems to me that children crave discipline & limits, although they will also fight against them. They want to know where the boundaries are, and children with no boundaries are miserable creatures.

The problem here is parents who have bought into the whole "crushing individuality and creativity" thing, or just think they are showing their love for their children by taking up for them against the mean awful school employees...even to the point of going to court to keep the children from having to follow the rules.